Aziz: Hello, and welcome to broadband here at broadband. We'll live by the philosophy that one needs other human beings to teach them how to be human.
Our guide for today on this journey of communal actualization is Talal Malik, a household name in the Kuwaiti radio scene, a voiceover actor and YouTube content creator.
I want to set the stage for this interview by shining the spotlight on three main points of focus for our dialogue, the first being Talal and his unique human journey next, I want to explore the unique world that is radio and how it compares to the latest and greatest social media platforms. And finally, I want to provide you the listener with the insights on habits and skills of successful content creators.
Without further ado, hype allow walk us through your 20 year journey in commercial radio from preparing to join the industry as a fresh faced graduate to today .
[00:00:54] The Radio Journey
Talal: looking at it, I remember the days when I started my it's not, it's not even a radio station. It was just a mock-up software of a radio play system with music in it, but that doesn't play. It's just a screen. Okay. And it is the very exact one that they used back in radio Kuwait. So I asked the company for a demo and that's what they sent me. And I was just 14 years old, listening to radio, loving it. And just thinking one day I can do the same thing. You know, on my own, I'm not starting my radio station, of course, but like working in what was available at the time, it was a government radio station with a title of Superstation FM 99.7 radio Quaid.
I think, you know, if you're an eighties or a nineties kid as still, you know, a millennial kids still listen to those. And, and, and remember those days with super famous hosts like Linda Lou may she rest in peace? Some of the Dr. . A lot of different people who really left their huge mark on quatre radio back then.
So It started off as you know, can I start like working in radio right now? I can't, I'm 14. Uh, okay. Maybe once I graduate, um, that's not going to happen, and I was lucky enough to visit 99.7. And this is when it all started some thing. There was like a spark when I saw the technical side of the station and then the way they talked on the radio and everything.
And just some people don't know what they wanted to do when they're 20, 30, 40, but I knew exactly what I wanted when I listened to them, speaking over music, you know, and just sounding really cool, knowing what they're talking about, you know, and and I was like, why ever be able to do this? I dunno, I just kept going in and, uh, pushing through.
So when I listened to those people and specifically at the Alia GU, who was the station manager at the time, he also did his shows. I was like, man, this has got to be my thing. And he called me up. He was like, Hey, how are you doing? We're starting a new private radio station in Kuwait. And I would like to have you on board. But I was like, Hey, I don't know, Arabic music at all, like zero. And he's like, don't worry about it. We'll we'll, we'll we'll figure. I'm like, okay. I like this guy.
I started listening to more Arabic music. It was booming back then with TV channels, like melody and Zika and all those, you know, big, big TV channels that everyone watched. And it was. You know, it was a good time for Arabic music. I think music videos are a great marketing tool for Arabic music, just like MTV before it switches to being a you know, reality TV kind of channel.
So Yeah. I did a lot of music programming. I did a lot of coaching for some of the DJs that ended up being a lot more famous than me, including Adena Jim, who is one of the most known announcers and hosts in Marine FM, and also in the Arab world in general,
and I continued doing my show on marina and that was in 2012 when I started doing it. And none of us saw, which was a morning show. It started off very differently than whatever was there before.
It was a very successful show for as long as the station was broadcasting. But when we came in me and my cohost on journey, we pushed in a totally different amount of power and energy, which is. We made it the morning zoo kind of style, you know, it was a different format. It wasn't the typical thing. Being both, you know, in our early thirties, we wanted to do something that reflected us and being both a big fans of American and European radio. It was our game to do this. And it all went to you know, just right in the very right direction. I would say until 2018, when I was appointed as station director for marina FM. And I can't say that I wasn't involved in decision making during those past years. Of course I was, but it was the time when I was like, why me? Why? Let me play with my toys. I love doing music. I love programming. I love the production. I just love getting my hands dirty with everything. Even if it was behind the scenes. Then it was a time for me to, you know, just let all of this aside and be the station director, which was a great experience. It was very enriching, just so many different levels, but it didn't go right. I mean, it didn't end up right.
And there was a time when I was like, listen, I've enjoyed my time here, but I think I'm going to go look for my next challenge and You know, you need to do this every now and then I read this uh, saying, which says you need to have A self revolution every 20 years. And looking back at it, I started in radio when I was around 19 or 20 and now I'm 40, so, okay. That was my revolution back then. What's the next revolution. You know what I
Aziz: A hundred percent. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And any, but you were, you were the talent at that radio station for so long, and it sounds like you're, you were a crucial part of making that station, what it is today and, and, you know, making it, giving it that evolution. And so you mentioned uh, personal revolution and growth every 20 years, but you know, entertainment and information and mediums of, of entertainment and information have also gone through some, so many evolutions throughout time. So. Radio seems to be that one constant throughout that entire evolution. How did radio survive the launch of television in the 1940s and the law of MTV? 40 years later in the 1980s.
[00:06:10] The Survival of Radio Stations
Talal: See I think we were all born in like the early eighties, me and MTV and Z 100 MTV is of course MTV music, television, and Z 100 is the biggest radio station in New York, which I listened to and just hold so dearly. And I've been to the studios there. It's the number one listened to a station in America and probably the world. They always call it the the, a world famous Z 100 broadcasting from the empire state building, which is just huge. It's pretty much imitated by a lot of radio stations in the world. The reason I'm giving you this very simple introduction here is just to tell you that when I first started working in Medina FM in 2005, and of course prior to that was a radio Kuwait in 2001. I still remember the station v. President. I will put it that way just to say, Hey guys, we're here to, you know, just enjoy the last few years of radio because it's just never going to, you know, never going to continue. Radio is dying. We're going to switch to digital really soon and it's going to be per segment or per show. And it's all going to be on demand.
But however, that was 2005 and now I still find myself listening to radio, not the radio that I always listened to because when I was a station manager, when I worked in the radio and I went, when I did the music, I always had to listen in a different way.
I was monitoring more than listening, but I still find myself on my Spotify or apple music or YouTube. And then bam, switch to radio. The main reason why radio still lives is because it's pretty unpredictable. Just put it that way, whether it's whatever the DJ is going to say next, or whatever topic they're discussing or whatever song.
I mean, what's your favorite song?
Aziz: oh, the having a favorite song is almost
Talal: Just mention any, just, just any song.
Aziz: I'm going to say the dress by Dijon.
Talal: Okay. If I play it for you, knowing that I grabbed your iPhone and played on Spotify, you'd be like, okay. Yeah.
I like this song. However, if we were driving around talking and that we grab a coffee and then we get in the car and it's halfway through on the radio, like ma'am, that's my song. And you blast it all the way up because it's unpredictable.
So this is the thing with radio. And you'd be just using your imagination going, who chose it, man. They've got some good taste in music. And then the DJ would say something that's kind of like meaningful, although he really never met you. And I think this is the magic of radio. Yeah.
Aziz: That's such a good point. I mean, now that I, now that you say that I can imagine me driving the car, listening to radio and that song coming up and me losing my mind and getting more excited, give me I've listened to that song probably 20 times over the week, you know? And so I can get kind of bored of it. Right. But then if it came out on the radio, I'm, I'm going to be glued to that radio. Right. And I'm going to, I'm going to feel some kind of connection to that station.
Talal: Exactly. I think, I think the medium itself, even if you're, let's say shopping in H and M and they will play a song that you like, look, man, I love this. Okay. I think I'm going to get this chart. Although, when I walked in, I was like, I'm not getting anything. So music has a lot of magic and the way it's delivered to us through. Specifically, whether it's a digital radio or just FM radio, it's just magical compared to knowing that I've got the song in this certain playlist playing it and then back to back to back. No, no, thank you.
Aziz: Yeah. Fair enough.
[00:09:40] Data and Marketing
Aziz: So according to Edison research is a 2020 share of the year report threshold radio accounts for 39% of audio consumption among those 13 and older while streaming services, including podcasts accounts, it accounted for 18%. so I guess, I guess my question is, I mean how important is, is getting marketing data and analytics to knowing your consumers and also understanding how to use these new social media platforms to their highest potential state, so to speak.
Talal: To be honest with you. radio is a lot of creativity. And if you want to, you know, just be very honest, it's not about sales as much as it is word of mouth and being out there meaning If let's say you have a certain product, let's say you sell cameras. And when you look at the year end results of how many lenses you sold and how many cameras you sold from this certain brand, and then compare it to the other brands.
You'll know where exactly you're standing, because there's a lot of numbers involved, but you can have the best DJ in the world running a, let's say a late night show and being just so famous and a lot of people tune in, but because it's FM it's analog, it's not. You cannot really tell how many people listen to that show.
You know what I mean? It's unlike YouTube views or subscriptions or so on. So yes, there are a lot of analitics going on in the radio world sadly in this part of the world, there's a lot of, you know, I'll pay you this much. You'll put me in number one, I'll pay you that much. And you just get that comp competition out of the way.
Aziz: I see, but, but, so you're mentioning essentially, you know, the, the act of bribery, bribery. Someone
Talal: want to use the word
Aziz: not in, yeah. You use that word, but you, you kind of described that of bribing a publication to, to rate you as number one, or to get the competition out of the way. And that sounds like, you know, there's some, it's kind of like a dirty gameplay or a dirty playing field.
Right. So is it, is this something that is, making the environment here in Kuwait or maybe globally when it comes to radio stations, because there aren't really that many frequency modulations to go around is that making it very difficult to get your foot in the door and start a new radio station? Because there are these people with a lot of money that are already playing.
Talal: I mean, it's not really that bad, but then let's just split it in half. There is the part where starting your own radio station. You cannot start a radio station without the ministry of information, allowing that and it's very expensive, you know? It's it's around a million cases. Just for the licensing fees and this is one thing, and then you've got another thing.
The other part of the question is you running your own you know, station and then bribing the the analysis company or whatever you want to call it just to, you know, get the competition out of the way or putting you in as number one or so it happens not as much, because again, there aren't many radio stations in Kuwait. Okay. But you know,
I think it happens everywhere, but then on much higher levels out there in the world, but for us in Kuwait and the region and the area being golf, I would say it does exist, but again, not as big as it will happen in let's say Europe or America or other countries in the world, but I've seen it happen very clearly.
Aziz: And, and is the reason that the administrative information, uh, limiting the amount of radio stations out there is so that they can monitor all of them at once. And they don't want to kind of, uh, exhaust their resources and monitor more radio stations.
Talal: I mean, I'm not honestly sure why they're doing this because if you compare a radio to TV, I think there are a lot other radio stations, uh, in the world. A lot more compared to TV, but the thing in Kuwait is the opposite. There are a lot less radio stations, like to only two, private radio stations and a lot more of a TV stations.
Kuwait is full of, uh, TV stations, even the licensing fees for them are a lot cheaper. And, the, the way to, you know, just go ahead and apply for one is completely different than when it comes to radio, because you'll just have to wait for the ministry to go ahead and allow for, um, for chances for you to apply for a radio station. So
[00:14:15] Intermission
Aziz: Hey guys, this is the part of the podcast where people usually tell you to buy this product or subscribed to this service, but we don't have any sponsors yet. So we'll sell ourselves. Instead. We have four simple asks one, please subscribe. If you haven't already. To share the podcast, share it with your friends, share with your family and share it with a stranger. Start a conversation, three, check out the show notes. You can find all the references that we've already made and are about to make on there. And for engage with us on Instagram and email, enjoy the rest of the show.
So you mentioned a million KD a year for licensing fees alone. I mean, that's a, you know, that's like $3.5 million to our international listeners. And so. What is the, what is the point of spending all that money? I mean,
[00:14:59] The Rise of Tiktok
Aziz: you are a household name and it took you 20 years to develop that name, but you have people on social media platforms like Instagram and take talk, getting millions and millions of followers essentially overnight. So Well, how does that make you feel?
How does that make you feel? Does it Make you feel like you're being robbed or, or does it make you kind of feel, are, do you want to switch and start making Tik TOK videos and dances or what exactly goes through your mind when you, when you find out about some of the fame that some of these kind of untalented individuals are, are getting on these social media platforms?
Talal: Let's be honest. I mean, you just follow your passion, right? So if your passion is dancing, you're going to do dancing all the way. If I convinced you that writing would be best for you as easy, you'll be like, wow, I can't do this. So for me, it was always a long-term investment doing radio. And just focusing on, you know the different skills that I have to develop to do radio.
I mean, a lot of people, when you tell them I work in radio, they're like, oh, so you're a DJ. No, that was the last thing I ended up doing. I've always been into the, behind the scenes kind of thing. So I did a music scheduling and then I started doing a radio production, which is the stuff that you hear in between the music, the DJs do the talking guests.
But then when there are no shows, you hear a station IDs that basically tell you, Hey, you're listening to to broadband FM and you know, a song go play. And the way they introduce the broadband FM part is the most important part. This is by the way, a free plug for your podcast.
So yeah, I usually charge the 180 for this, but I'm just getting, what I'm trying to say is the way you present, whatever goes in between the music, even if your playlist was solid with also, still grab the listener, because you can just say, you're listening to the best music, listening to radio. Great. You don't want to do this.
You're like the line that really catches the listener and gets them thinking. And then bam, the song playing is the best part.
So it was always for me developing into different skills in the radio business to reach this level, to be able to handle the radio station. I think that my kind of investment is totally different as you just said. Yes, I am a household name. Yes. I will, of course still be stopped and asked whatever happened to your show. We still miss you. We want you back because it wasn't something that was built overnight. Uh, Just like Tik TOK, or I can definitely try to remind you of someone who was really big 10 years ago, but you'll be like, oh, okay.
Yeah. Anyway, move on. Thought let's talk about something else as, because that was an overnight success. And now that success has gone. So, I think it's, it's a totally different you know, comparison, They're doing their thing, you're doing your thing and everyone's getting their own share.
Aziz: That's a very good point. I mean, once you've spent 20 years of real life building yourself and making something out of your name you start to becoming, you start to become etched into the identity of the community itself. And everyone will remember you and have some kind of memory or feeling of, of listening to you uh, perform or host or, or, or, you know, put a song out.
Right. So, so I mean, they might be, you know, a hot now, but they might just be dropped out of the public eye, you know, in a week's time. So you're a hundred percent, right? Yeah. Yeah. Fame is a fame is very fickle. It
Talal: Very true. And a lot of people want to share off that fame. They w they would either be as controversial as they can be regarding a certain topic and they want to just go ahead and just, you know, give their opinion and they're entitled to their opinion. but then people want something long-term, you know, you're not going to follow a YouTube channel because they put out one nice video. It's the consistency, that kind of stuff that you really get glued to is. what you want to keep getting more off. So you end up subscribing or you end up paying for a certain amount of content that you would like basically.
[00:18:54] Challenges of Producing Your Own Content
Aziz: Fair enough. And, you know, When you were at a radio station, you had a lot of colleagues and resources that you were accustomed to leveraging to get your message out there. Right? So what are some of the perks and some of the challenges of producing your own content as an individual contributor?
Talal: Oh, the number one challenge would be that there's no one to follow you around and say, Hey, is it done? Hey, did you finish this? Hey, we need to go on air. Because back then I just knew that I was in a certain let's say template. Okay. And that template said, wake up at this time, do the show from this time to this time.
And then you're free from here to here. And then you got to just keep on working, working, working, working, and then your day is done.
So if it's your show, you gotta be an hour ahead of that show. You gotta, you know, just sit down and talk with your colleagues and get inspired and motivated and motivate others, others as well. But now that I'm doing this all on my own, it seems very fancy when I say, okay. Yeah, I think I'm going to put out a video or really, when are you gonna put it in.
And then it hits me. I'm not sure. Let me be honest. Is it going to be tomorrow? I can't do it tomorrow, but are you going to do it tomorrow? I don't know. You know what I mean? I still like to give myself the luxury of, you know, doing things at my very own pace of doing things,
[00:20:11] Transmedia
Aziz: Yeah. I mean, creatives are known to be masters of their craft, but also masters of procrastination um, the art, the art of procrastination. Uh, and, and so, and so You know, media is all about the art of storytelling and. As media storytelling is described as the technique of telling one story across multiple platforms and formats. So, I mean, you are, and we're on radio and YouTube, Instagram and other platforms. Do you find that this focus on multiple media platforms at once hindering you from mastering? Just one of them and doing it successfully?
Talal: I believe for someone like me, it should be a lot easier than someone who's just starting out because I know exactly what I want and I know where I can find those people. So they're definitely not on Tik TOK, but they're definitely on Instagram and YouTube and maybe. Twitter, just for instance. Right. But then I do know exactly what I'm offering right here, but for others who are just starting out, it's just too much, I'm sure they have the icons of those different applications, you know, on a wall.
And they would just, okay. Like I haven't posted on Tik TOK today, but I'll definitely post on post on Instagram and then putting it all together is another way of marketing yourself.
Like whenever you say YouTube you're taking at least six or 10 minutes of someone's time. You got to have something to offer. But if it's other than that, then it's just definitely nothing more than 10 seconds or 20 seconds. So it is very hindering. It is very you, you gotta know what you're doing exactly. And then focus where you got to put that content.
[00:21:46] Content Creation Skills
Aziz: Very good answer. Right. And so speaking of having that you know, delivery that is engaging what is the best way to develop the skill of delivering your content in a way that is aesthetically pleasing or in a way that is, is, is fun to listen to.
Talal: As is you're a podcaster. You're someone who does this so well, I'm sure if we go a couple of, like, let's say, I don't know, 20, 30 episodes ago, things were not as good as they are right now. The reason is you did listen to yourself. You did criticize yourself and you are very harsh on yourself. At one point, you did ask people to give you their opinion, and you did listen to other podcasts, which is the most important part where you did compare.
This thing that you really like to another podcast that you really like, you're like, but why do I like this host a little more? Or what, what do I like? Is it the duration of the podcast? Is it the kind of questions? Is it because the, the, the, the interviewer himself or herself or more engaged, or did they just ask a question and leave the guests to answer?
So just like I mentioned in, in, earlier in the interview, I did mention that I've listened to a lot of American and European radio and that being a. Did lead me in, in a very influencing you know, look at things that, Hey, why should we always talk over songs? And not for instance, have our listeners say something, oh, Okay. How about we do it this way or that way they've done it way before us and they've done it so well. So I can take some Of the things and just apply it in a very Kuwaiti way and try it out on radio. And I can tell you that I was 100% original during that time. Hell no, I wasn't. I did take a lot of ideas and I did twist them a bit and this is the best form of creativity. You know, you just take someone else's work, you do it a little differently and you put it out there and it's just so successful. No one is 100% original.
Aziz: Of course, you have to understand who and how to benchmark off of certain people is their individuals.
[00:23:52] Youtubers Worth Checking Out
Aziz: And So you mentioned Casey Neistat and how he is one of the influencers that you, that you follow and look up to. Are there any other influencers that have inspired your work?
Talal: Casey for sure. Because like number one, I would say because he just released a a course, an online course that I'm part of. And it's a one month course. It's called, uh Casey's filmmaking a storytelling course. It's a 30 day course. I'm part of it right now.
So if, if you ask me who else, I mean, I do watch a little bit of I just teen MKBHD, Maddie, Avella Matthew. a lot of Peter McKennon. I would say a lot of different ones that, you know, know exactly what they're doing. And they do have a certain taste that they release every, you know, few days for people to watch and never have enough of
but then I think this is what really attaches us to, to other humans is because they project their thoughts, their ideas, their lives in a way that is so easy. If they're, you know, if you're told about it, but the way the camera and the effects and the music that they put altogether is just so, so pleasing. And it just takes things to another level. I mean, you can give me a piece of advice right now as he is, and I would listen to it and the listener would be like, nice. But then if I put the right music and the right effects on that piece of information or advice that you gave me, it would definitely be like, wow, that's dramatic, man.
Aziz: Yeah, of course it's all about the framing and, uh, and the, the user experience, right? Um, Okay. So can you, speaking of advice, can you share some books or channels or resources that inspired or, or guided your success in the media world?
[00:25:35] Tools and Advice
Talal: To be honest. I don't do a lot of reading. I do a lot of listening and comparison in my head. One of the most like effecting books that I've ever read in my life was called a guide on breaking and entering how to be a radio DJ. It was such a cheesy book. And the advice in it is stuff that I probably already knew just being a listener of radio, but it was a kickstart to, to, you know, Hey, let's take things a little more seriously, and let's just be out there in the world.
You can do something that you really like. And I ordered it from Amazon back in like 95 or 96. But again, it was my way of telling myself, Hey, I think I want to read a book about something that I want to invest in, in the future.
A lot of the, the real advice I would say, or the real influence with gum, from being exposed to the content that you want to end up making. In my case, it was a lot of listening to radio and just how they did things.
I remember at the time when I used to listen to famous radio stations and successful ones and open the notes app on my computer and. Write down everything they did. So now I would put in, if they played a Britney Spears hit me baby. One more time. I would write down the name of the song and the time. And then right next to it, I would put in pop and then it was a commercial break. And how long was the commercial break and then what song played after the commercial break?
Was it aloud song? Was it a pop famous song or was it something really light? And I would try to understand why they did it this way. Why did the DJs talk about way? You know what I mean? It was a lot of me trying to understand things because I'm sure I just wouldn't find it in books. And if I did, they would be there as a theory. and I don't want to take a certain theory and just apply it on me. I want to do what. You know what I mean?
[00:27:19] Shoutouts
Aziz: And that's, that's a great philosophy as well, and is really good advice. So we talked a lot about you and your process and about, you know, the talent that's out there that we can leverage. But are there any uh, friends or communities that you'd like to play on the show?
Talal: So it's no one specific, but I would definitely just say hi to everyone who listened. to and interacted with us on daily basis, or it was uh, the colleagues that I worked with who actually ended up being very close, close friends. So, Yeah.
but I would like to, you know first and foremost, Thank you guys for doing such a great job because whenever I, you. know, get approached by a TV channel or a YouTube channel, or whether it's a podcast or even a journalist for a newspaper, I would definitely go and research their work.
Uh, Before I say yes or no, because I want to know where and how I'm going to be exposed to that, to the consumer, right. And when I listened to you guys, Hey, those guys are doing a good job. I want to be a part of this. So thank you for having me. And uh, I'd love to just see this kind of work, you know, going to another level because as we both agree as he is that everyone in their mother has a podcast somewhere.
And you know, that doesn't mean that all of them are successful. I hope they're all of them will be successful, but then a lot of them are coming others while you guys are not copying anyone, at least to how I see things. So good job. Keep going.
Aziz: Thank you so much for recognizing that and for listening and we're big fans of you and, and we're, and we're so, so grateful for, for the wonderful words that you just shared with me. Thank you so much.