All Things Media: The Creative Firm Director

"There is a bigger opportunity to reach more people based on a mindset, a belief system, or a purpose versus a demographic."

Our guide for today on this journey of communal actualization is Dana AlHanbali an entrepreneur and the co-founder of the Kuwait-based creative communications firm, Beattie and Dane.

I'm going to set the stage for this interview by shining the spotlight on three main points of focus for our dialogue
-  About Dana and her unique human journey
- Explore the intricacies of the dynamic and quick to evolve world of creative marketing.
- Provide you the listener with the best practices to build an effective marketing campaign and the best way to prepare to approach a communications firm.

References mentioned in this episode:
Beatie and Dane - Dana's Communication Firm
360 marketing campaigns
Chocolate Bars Ads
Marzoug Alghanim campaign
Aziz aljasmi
Ghazwan Hamdan - Creative Director of MAEK in Dubai
Lujain Abulfaraj - develops products/content for teaching Arabic to children

Reach out to Dana at:
Instagram @dalhanbali
Website
Email dana@beattieanddane.com

Reach out to broadband at:
Instagram @broadband.podcast
Email aziz@seedsmedia.org
Other Links

Reach out to luucid at:
Instagram @luucidkw
Website luucidkw.com
For guest recommendations Email hello@luucid.co

Transcript

Dana Alhanbali

Aziz: Hello, and welcome to broadband here at broadband, we live by the philosophy that one needs other human beings to teach them how to be human. 

Our guide for today on this journey of communal actualization is Dana AlHanbali an entrepreneur and the co-founder of the Kuwait based creative communications firm, Beatie and Dane.

I'm going to set the stage for this interview by shining the spotlight on three main points of focus for our dialogue, the first being Dana and her unique human journey. Next, I want to explore the intricacies of the dynamic and quick to evolve world of creative marketing. And finally, with Dana's insights I want to provide you the listener with the best practices to build an effective marketing campaign and the best way to prepare to approach a communications firm.

So um, I'm going to go ahead and start with, uh, the, the factories that went behind you choosing to follow and pursue a visual communications specifically at the American 

[00:00:56] Studying in Sharjah, UAE

Aziz: university of Sharjah.

Dana: So I had grown up Between two worlds.

Okay. Between Kuwait and, and the United States um, coming from a somewhat conservative Muslim family multicultural background my English was always better than my Arabic. So kind of leaving that world of in-between and going to a country like the UAE, even within the UAE, wasn't even Dubai. It was Sharjah, which is a little bit more conservative, a little bit more structured and, and.

I don't know the right term for it. I don't think culture is the right term, but there are a lot more attached to the Arab side of what makes them what makes them Sharjah. It was a beautiful induction back into the culture that I wanted to become a part of my entire life. Um, My memories of the UAE are incredible.

Um, Me going back there was an opportunity for me to connect with people who. Came from the same cultural background that I'm, that I come from. And I'm not even talking about nationality because they were all just as different as I was. They were in Muraki, they were Saudi, they were Lebanese. Styrian whatever you want. it was in a way that felt inviting because we were all there and, you know, it's college. And a lot of firsts happened in college. And we, it was, it was an encouraging community to connect back to my Arab side, which I look back on very, very fondly.

Aziz: I love that. And, and I honestly haven't experienced anything like that. I mean, what ended up happening with me is I graduated at 17 from high school and I moved away at west for 11 years. And so I came back with almost a resistance to coming back. And it was, it's not until now at 29 years old that I can truly kind of live in the moment and be present. 

So it was really awesome to hear that it's really inspirational. That's fantastic. 

Dana: yeah.

[00:02:52] Working in Dubai

Aziz: And, and, and so after you graduated from the UAE, you did end up coming back to Kuwait, right? For a nine month professional stint before going back to Dubai for another five years. So if you, if you're going to summarize those five years in Dubai, since leaving Kuwait, what would you let's see actually Butte to, to that experience of that early in your career? 

Dana: So when I came back to the UAE, I was so. Eager to learn that I took advantage of every single opportunity that was in front of me. Like I remember my first role was at a media agency. And I was the uh, executive, for that media agency. And they were going to be launching four other agencies within their mother company agencies that would tackle things that none of us had heard before at the time. Things like SEO and out-of-home media and, and digital media, which was still you know, it was, it was the beginning of digital media and 360 degree campaigns.

So I had access to launching all of these different companies within the mother company that I was in. And I was, I was, I was the resident marketing person for this, but I was so eager to, to, to learn from everyone around me that. Hi, developed independent relationships with each of these different companies. And I ended up helping launch these companies across the entire MENA region, which for someone in their early twenties, who has a degree in design isn't necessarily something you would expect, it was such an amazing opportunity. 

Um, I remember that, you know, have a couple of media campaigns and I know I knew nothing about media at the time. Literally zilch, nothing, nothing, nothing. Um, but the requests would be, you know, we have, uh, award ceremonies coming up and they were award ceremonies that rewarded different campaigns within the industry.

And I would say, okay, great. Um, I'd like to volunteer for putting our case studies together for these projects. At team a and B worked on and they tell me, okay, great. But like, do you know what goes into it? So, okay. No, I'll learn. And I just got involved in every single aspect of all these different businesses and God, it was such an exciting time.

Aziz: I bet. 

Dana: it 

Aziz: It sounds like it was both an incubative area uh, or an incubative time of your life and your career. And then it was also an accelerator, a 

[00:05:12] Going back to Kuwait

Aziz: But then what drew you back to Kuwait after experiencing that Renaissance? Because I'm not even sure that we've ever experienced that since uh, Dubai experienced it in the early.

Dana: Um, you have to understand and I'm sure actually you could relate. There's something about a Kuwait where.

I mean, it just, you, you love it for so many reasons that you can't put your finger on, you have this loyalty and attachment to it. And it's like a dysfunctional family member. Like it's just, it's something you love deep down inside. And, and my dream was always to come back to Kuwait. Like Kuwait was always in the cards for me, maybe not this soon, but I always had planned on coming back to Kuwait.

And funny enough, what drew me back to Kuwait were the things that didn't exist beforehand, that now existed, which was access, exposure, and opportunity, but in a completely different way you know the entrepreneurial scene was a lot more up and running. There was a lot of there were a lot of new businesses popping up and a lot of them were people that were my age or a little bit older.

It was kind of my generation that were kind of surfacing on, on different channels, mainly social media. And, you know, they finally had a voice. So the type of the Kuwait that I thought I was coming back to felt different, it felt, it felt like it would be the right time to come back. 

And it was an opportunity to work with brands that I had grown up with brands that I was familiar with, the brands that I'm literally a customer of.

So it felt like kind of that magic formula of, yes, this is the right time to come back to Kuwait. But I knew, I knew this was a great news for my family, who of course more than encouraged it. But but yeah, that, that's kind of how I ended up back in. 

Aziz: And I'm 

Dana: how I ended up meeting my business partner.

[00:06:58] Beatie and Dane (The Communication Firm)

Aziz: Oh, fantastic. And that's exactly my next question. How did y'all decide to start BD and Dane? And how did you come to that name? BD and Dane.

Dana: Okay. So if, and this was here, he would tell you it's a state secret and we're not going to share it with you and you have to come work with us so we can share it. But you know, I'll tell you it's fine. It's been like six years now. BIA and Dan, so when we when we were putting together our business plan, we were thinking, okay, what are we going to name our company?

We knew that, you know, the best consultancies and the best advertising agencies historically were always named after the founders. But we also knew if we named an innocent Donna, it would sound like the cheap cookie brand. And we were like, yeah, we can't go there. We can't make that work. So we said okay, what if actually I give an us full credit on this?

He has three kids. So I guess he's been through this process before, but he actually went to like a random baby name websites. And it turns out that the meaning of NSN Diana in Gaelic, which is the language. I wish. R B T and Dane. So we said, oh my God, this is perfect. It kind of references us without literally referencing us.

And it sounds, you know, it has that international feel and it feels like it's something that is very much us. And that's the rest is history.

Aziz: That's absolutely fantastic. And you guys kind of like, you know, it was like, Hey, let's simplify it and let's go with it. And at the end of the day, it's not the name that really matters. It's the content. Right. And the products and the services that you come up with. So uh, that's phenomenal. 

But, but you know, you are successful and, you know, knock on wood that, that continues on with the future Um, but, but, 

[00:08:42] What is considered Growth?

Aziz: So it sounds to me that it's a smaller organization where it's you and NS and you work on projects, which tendency means that you probably hire contractors more so than, than having full-time staff. So So do you feel. There is growing slowly and then growing almost, almost not growing at all. There's is there a fine line between growing slowly and not growing big because of, of having that small team? 

Dana: It depends how you define growth growth for us has to do like specifically, if you were to talk to me or under some quite sure we'd give the same answer growth for us, has to do with the complexity of the work that we tackle and put out there for people to see. You'll notice within, you know, the, the, the portfolio of work that we've done.

It's really diverse. We don't stick to one industry. We don't stick to one particular way of communication. Growth for us is investing in a pool of talent. That becomes part of B a, B P, and Dane's DNA. Success is recognition for when it comes to successful campaigns that actually met KPIs for clients, whether it has to do with the sales objective or the, the acquisition um, objectives that were set at the beginning of the campaign, that for us is growth.

Because what ends up happening as a result of that is we have, we have a waiting list of clients because they know that we deliver on what it is that we do. So, yes. There are companies that may be from their perspective who see growth as, you know, physical scale, you know, having a team of, you know, X amount of people and you know, two floors worths of offices. Maybe that means growth to some people. I just don't think that is growth.

Aziz: It's quality rather than quantity. And that's a phenomenal way of living life. That's a good philosophy in general. 

[00:10:31] Classifying your Audience 

Aziz: And speaking of mindsets, because you used this word a couple of times already, and the 2018 ad tech panel, you stated that audiences should no longer be classified as demographics, but seen as mindsets. 

And that calls for a higher level of granularity and more research, which you already mentioned, like Uh, is it fair to assume that the niche mindset that you're trying to approach your advertise to will change based on the, the project that you're working on that, you know, you might not want to sell to this specific mindset or are you always trying to sell to all minds?

Dana: Um, We're definitely not always trying to sell to all mindsets because I don't think that's possible, honestly. And I think when anyone promises that it is, I think that it's a bit naive. What I meant by that comment in particular is that today, especially now in 2022 the mindset of someone who is a teenager could very likely resemble the mindset of someone in their fifties.

You know, nothing about their lifestyle is the same, nothing about their interests could be the same, but the way that they think the thing that's, the things that they could value um, could potentially co-relate for. There is an opportunity for me to reach more people based on. A mindset, a belief system, maybe even a purpose in some cases versus a demographic.

 Because when I think about mindset, I think of it as you know, a belief system that you and I could share, but we could have different perspectives or different ways of thinking about it, which would warrant some sort of conversation. That's a great moment for me to kind of target you and come up with a piece of communication. That's going to get me and you to have a conversation. You know what I mean?

Aziz: No, no. And now I know what you mean? And

[00:12:16] Going Viral Using Provocative Content

Aziz: I do see it now as even more But, uh, You know, you also mentioned in that ad tech panel that due to constant stimulation, audiences have now a very short, but very valuable attention span, which needs to be captured by being interesting. Now, I mean, the thing that came to mind when I heard that is everyone. I'm a bond. Kuwait has these very successful, very provocative. And at times dysfunctional soap operas, there are always excellent. Capturing people's attention span, you know uh, if people are usually not even thinking about, about one thing at a time, but now you have an entire region watching the same thing at the same time, which is absolutely amazing. And it's also excellent at sparking regional dialogue.

So talk to me about how that method of you being provocative and maybe at times it's functional. How, how successful is that as a model to, to sell an idea or to sell or to say, buy people's attention?

Dana: You know, Isaiah, I really I've been thinking about this term for such a long time since, before you and I have spoken, because this is even something that me and NS debate internally, you know you know, are like people keep associating some of our campaigns just because some of them uh, sparked various conversations that they were intentionally provocative.

They were made to provoke. They were making. And it just feels like as a term, I don't believe if the intention is to make something provocative. It would end up being provocative. I think it would end up being lame, honestly, 

because if the intention was to piss people off, so we're going to do something provocative. We're going to just do it for the sake of that. I think that's very shortsighted. I don't think that's strategic in the long-term. I don't think that makes for good content. When I think about good storytelling stories that maybe result in provocative conversations, because people disagree about fundamental things that are addressed in these merits.

I don't think the intention of these storytelling is to provoke. I think it's the intention is always to tell stories, tell stories from different perspectives in different ways. It's never to force you to see something in one particular way. 

Aziz: Hey guys, this is the part of the podcast where people usually tell you to buy this product or subscribed to this service, but we don't have any sponsors yet. So we'll sell ourselves. Instead. We have four simple asks one, please subscribe. If you haven't already. To share the podcast, share it with your friends, share with your family and share it with a stranger. Start a conversation, three, check out the show notes. You can find all the references that we've already made and are about to make on there. And for engage with us on Instagram and email, enjoy the rest of the show. 

[00:15:11] The Chocolate Bar Ads

Aziz: I think you and I are kind of dancing around this specific ad that's in everyone's mind, right? I mean, we're talking about, I mean, our, at least I'm referring to the chocolate bar ads that got an intense backlash for a period of time.

And I think it's since died down. so thankfully it's, it's, it's gone away, I think now, but can you describe the chocolate bar ads to our audience who may not have seen them? So what was um, can you just describe what they would see if they clicked on a YouTube video and, and maybe the intention behind yet. 

Dana: Okay. If you know, chocolate bar, if you live in Kuwait, you know, that chocolate bar is the OJI of dessert concepts. Okay. And part of bringing that back was tapping into um, a strategy that we coined as that feeling. And since that feeling or the governed goat is a line that has become synonymous with the brand for a variety of different reasons. But our intention for it was that when you have a chocolate bar product, when you think about chocolate bar, when you reminisce, when you get that, that, that feeling, that, that the association of a chocolate bar product takes you out of whatever funk or context or whatever you are, wherever you are in life today, it takes you out of this and puts you in a state of pure joy and comfort because chocolate bar is about nostalgia and that's the human truth that gave birth. One of the expressions, which was the film or the films, and there were different ways that the campaign had launched. But very specifically what you are referring to is the interpretation of the three films. So each film presented a scene of a relationship where the character, they were all husband and wife.

And there would be a situation that would cause her as a wife, anger or frustration. And she begins to imagine how she would deal with him in her head. Do you know that natural feeling of when someone irritates you or does something, oh my God, I want to do this to him. So she would choke him or she would, you know, want to kill him or something like that.

It was, it was, it was a dramatize kind of kill bill style, a Tarantino moment. And then once the husband sees that she's at the point of rage, he says the magic word, which in this case was chocolate bar and she's completely transport transported out of this state of potential rage into a place she'd rather be, which is a place of joy.

And that's the association that we wanted to build between the word chocolate bar and the brand. So it was a very simple concept. 

Aziz: Okay. So I think maybe one of the, I mean, I can assume I haven't heard this specifically, but maybe one of the critiques was that okay. So you're saying that if a woman gets cheated on and her significant other suggests a chocolate bar or to get dessert and she'll get over it because you know of that feeling of nostalgia that she gets from the chocolate or the dopamine rush. Right. So, and a lot, a lot of women probably were extremely offended at That notion. Uh, It might be, am I kind of on the nose here?

Dana: That was, that was the argument that was made that along with the viral.

Um, but in this specific case, Again, it all goes back to context because Aziz it's so easy to, to talk about Right and wrong. If you're not referring to very specifically what we have in front of us and when it came to chocolate bar, very specifically whether it was the violence or the scenarios themselves, they followed a structure or the intention was to follow a structure that mirrored a lot of human truths and things that we see on TV a lot.

So it wasn't something that was like groundbreaking really, uh, hurtful to society. It was, it was something that was supposed to be viewed as the natural tension between a husband and a wife. You know, how she would imagine she would deal with it. The killings weren't real. They were completely stylized. It was even if you look at it, it's like silly. Like the guy is like fake choking. 

Aziz: Yeah. Yeah. I know, I know I, and.

I empathize with your position as well. And so it is a very complicated situation because it's all context and it was all very subjective and it's art at the end of the day. I mean, whether or not you want to call it art, that's up to you, but it is absolutely art.

And so the creative license that you had and, and the, and the methods you took to portray this, this feeling of nostalgia a lot of people did enjoy that. And just as this, as much as people didn't like it, 

[00:19:38] Ensuring Quality Control 

Aziz: now, we talk about this polarizing response to the chocolate bar ads. I mean, and. Being I'm the managing director of a creative firm is not an easy job. There's a lot of exposure that comes with it. Talk to us a little bit more about this exposure and what are some of the the systems in place for NBD and Dane to ensure that you have some quality control. Whenever, whenever things go out of hand like this, did you learn from the chocolate bar ads? And did you develop that system and BD and date? 

Dana: We definitely learned from the chocolate bar ads, for sure. That entire experience was learning experience, I don't know if you're familiar with what happened after, but even when we did the um, the, the newspaper, the first, the front page where people got involved and there was an attempt to change the narrative after all of that negative feedback, there were a lot of learnings that came from that entire process.

There were internal discussions that happened internally with our teams, some of our team, you know, didn't like the fact that, you know, the companies that they were working for you know, were being hated on. And what does that say about them and their values and what they stand for? So this definitely led to a lot of discussion and reflection But when it comes to systems in place as ease, you really cannot predict how things go.

And in the case of chocolate bar, there was genuinely no intention, no one had anticipated that it would be interpreted the way that it was interpreted. So even in terms of the way we navigated through, at the time we had to come up with a plan B within a span of, you know, I remember it was a weekend. There were a lot of learnings that came with that. And I think, I think one thing um, for us as a learning would be to just be really, really conscious of timing, because I also believe that had the timing of the release of that film been different, but at a different time, I don't know. I think it would have had the same reaction in all honesty.

[00:21:40] Marzoug AlGhanim's Political Campaign

Aziz: you know, uh, I could definitely see that, but you know, it is what it is. You have to move on from it, but, but speaking of, of that trope with the election , Uh, , uh, the speaker of the house here in Kuwait is a politician who has been extremely polarizing. People, either love him or hate him.

You have people saying and then you have people praying for his demise. So how is it like having a client or choosing to work with a client that is divisive in nature? Is there again, maybe you don't have systems in place, but what's that conversation between you and NS before saying yes. To taking a divisive client on

Dana: That's a good question. It's definitely one that, you know, we would think about it from all angles. We always have these conversations, whether it's the right um, whether this client is a right fit for BD and Dane, not just from the perspective of what they represent, but also in terms of what the output is going to be.

You know, we, aren't a film production studio people who come to us very specifically come to us because of the way we think and because of the way we approach projects. And when we met with Whitey and his team we needed to. We met with them the exact same way we met with every other client.

They went through the exact same process. They went through the exact same questionnaires back and forth. It wasn't a, yes, let's do it for the PR value of what this is going to potentially get. We genuinely sat with them and we heard them out and we would never sign on board with a client that we felt would compromise our own values or the values of the company.

But we did sit with them as we do with all of their clients. We heard them out and we understood the challenges that they were facing as part of their campaign. It's very, like it's as simple as that, they like everyone else were facing challenges that were hurting their campaign for various reasons that needed to be tackled.

They came to us for an answer. We put together a strategy and part of that strategy resulted in that film of how to tackle it. And it's as simple as that.

Aziz: But it's very enough. It does sound like you have a system in place. I mean, you have these questionnaires that a lot of back and forth, a lot of pushing on maybe the, the content of the questionnaires. And then you, you move on from there. You even decide after you've had that conversation, whether or not you want to pick them up as a client.

So that's that sounds, that sounds like a, a um, a very logical way of doing things. 

[00:24:15] The Cancel Culture

Aziz: Um, I want to kind of switch gears and talk about the market evolution here in Kuwait. Uh, I do realize that there is a lot of commentary here in Kuwait and less dialogue. And it seems like that we're on the forefront of cancel culture and in the region. And I think we were even doing it before it was ever cool in the west.

So how difficult is it? To manage the visceral intense response and the reaction from the public and how can we improve? I mean, what are some of the things that you would like to see from our community here in Kuwait? 

Dana: yeah, fortunately we are the Kings of cancel culture. And it's really sad. It's really sad because growing up here, you know, I feel so lucky that I got to grow up in a market like Kuwait then equate is very different from everywhere else in the in the, in the region. A lot of us are well-traveled a lot of us have had access to um, people that come from different places education channels to different things, whether it's, you know, media, TV, whatever you want to call it, we are just, we're very well-versed community of people.

So, you know, we, we didn't, we didn't grow up with things not being allowed and we have to dress the specific way. And we have to not talk about things like so much freer here than it is in other places. So it's so ironic that. uh, we, we, we live in a place that is at the forefront of cancel culture.

I think, you know, it's so unfortunate because we are such a young nation and this, this notion of being heard and having a voice and access to, you know, your phone where your opinion can be heard within a matter of seconds is something that, you know, we didn't, we didn't transition into this stage. This is something that was put upon us quite quickly, compared to the Western world. 

So when I think about the level of maturity that exists when it comes to people's need to be heard, every single thought in my head must be heard. And I can say it the exact way that I want to say it, no matter how it comes out, because I am a free person. I mean, it's just, it's it's, it's a result of not properly transitioning into it. It's too much too fast.

And now. I'm, now I'm going to use it. Now I'm going to say every little thing that comes to my mind all the time, because it matters and I'm right and you're wrong and you suck and I rock and I'm more this than you and I'm leading this movement, but God it's exhausting.

Aziz: Yeah. I think people have developed a sense of entitlement that I deserve and I'm entitled to be heard. Uh, and, uh, and that's the thing. There's no one is entitled to anything. And, 

Dana: 100%, 100%. Like So to go back to your question of how can we improve?

It's really simple. You know, don't just talk to respond. Listen, listen to each other, have a conversation. It is 100% okay for me and you to disagree on fundamental things. We can, we, we can sit on opposite sides of the spectrum when it comes to our belief system, how we think, what we feel, whether something is right or wrong, whether it's ugly or beautiful weather or whatever, but we can do that uh, while maintaining a sense of respect for each other.

I don't have to demean you. I don't have to put you down. I don't have to discredit your entire existence because you disagree with me. It is okay.  If the world has taught us anything, if history has taught us anything, it is that to move forward. The likes of you and the likes of me need to co-exist one way is not working for anyone

and all you gotta do is look at, you know, our neighbors around the world to see it. There's not one way that's working for everyone. Everyone has their own shit that they're dealing with. 

Aziz: I think you hit the nail on the head. It's all about listening. If you disagree with someone, sit down and talk to them, but talking to them means you have to listen first. I mean, my dad tells me this all the time because I need to work on my listening as well, but, you know, I've got two ears and one mouth for a reason, you know? 

But listen, I, I, you know, I took uh, I took a great portion of your time. Thank you so much. I want to wrap up the call and the way we wrap up is usually with a call to action. 

[00:28:37] Tips and Tricks for a Marketing Campaign 

Aziz: So what are some of the tips and tricks that our listeners can apply to creating a successful campaign? Maybe they don't have the resources to approach a BD and Dane, but they want to try to do it on their own. And, and what would be the best trip, tips and tricks for that?

Dana: The best way to figure out what you need to do, especially if you're a small business and you want to work at your company um, figure out who your audience is. And I know that sounds like kind of a very generic statement, but I'm being very, like, it is so important and you have no idea how much money you'll save. If you figure this out, figure out who your audience is, exactly who they are, put them into a persona literally, and talk to them, build your communication, your social media platforms, your photography for them, knowing that these are going to be the people that are going to be consuming your product or your brand.

Um, The minute you start to kind of approach this experience in a more human way. You'll be surprised how easy it is to get things done There are incredible freelancers in Kuwait that do photography, graphic design, like the copywriting, the resources that are at your fingertips for very affordable prices.

Most of the time it's just that the owners themselves either don't have the time or aren't interested in just putting a little bit of extra effort in, in putting a plan together when it comes to these things. But all you really need is to pinpoint who your audience is, develop content and communicate to them very specifically in terms of what it is that you put out there.

And stay top of mind when I say top of mind is don't. And so many of my clients make this mistake. They'll put their annual budget into one campaign that lasts a month and a half, and then they're quiet the rest of the year. I think that's just a waste of resources. I would much rather you not do a big campaign in the year and just on a monthly basis maintain just some top of mind awareness on various channels, the channels that your audiences are at and spend your meat, your media money there.

Spend your efforts there. Yes. Okay. You're not going to get a big sexy campaign with, you know, billboards that have your logo on it, but your audience that is going to be shopping for your products or your brand sees you. And that's focusing on that is actually more than.

Aziz: And 

[00:31:00] Achieving Advocacy

Aziz: How can small businesses and influencers get past engagement with their audience and achieve advocacy? 

Dana: Okay. Firstly, to achieve advocacy. The first thing you have to understand is that it's time, time, time, time, time, time, time. There's no such thing as achieving advocacy, whether you're a brand or an influencer or a business, whatever it is that you are in existence it takes consistent consistent communication, OnPoint messaging ideally some sort of purpose that leads to creating advocates out of your viewers or your consumers.

Um, So purpose plays a big part in the advocacy, but it's something that's grown that has grown over time. And. You know, in a, in a, in a culture of people with incredibly short attention spans and I think less and less loyalty when it comes to brands it's incredibly important to kind of maintain this, maintain this consistency and rely on time to kind of build that audience because it doesn't happen overnight. It just doesn't.

Aziz: Wonderful time. 

Uh, thank you so much for sharing that because that's an important message, Dan. I really, really appreciate that. 

Dana: Thank you. Well, I, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your time. Just your entire approach to this whole process. Like I have been asked to do so many different interviews, whether it's through publications or I've done something on in the economy recently, like you are so beyond well-prepared this is the most professional, well thought out interview I've ever had the pleasure of being part of. So thank you for your time. Thank you for your commitment. Like we need more of you here and I'm so proud that you come from Kuwait and you do this. Like, it's just another reason why I love Kuwait for thank you. Thank you for everything. 

Aziz: have a varied. You can't see, but I'm blushing. Oh, I get it. Thank you so much that it feels amazing to, to, to get that kind of feedback. And it's, it's, it's a big motivation. So thank you so much. I really appreciate you. And and, and listen we didn't approach you if you weren't inspirational. Right.

so um, I appreciate you. Thank you. 

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