Aziz: Hello, and welcome to broadband here at broadband, we live by the philosophy that one needs other human beings to teach them how to be human. Our guide for today on this journey of communal actualization is Yasmena AlMulla an NYU trained political scientist and freelance journalist, whose words frequently appear on Gulf News, Politics Today, Kuwait Times, Middle East Eye and Raseef 22. Yasmena mainly uh, coverage, political, social, and human rights issues. I want to set the stage for this interview by shining the spotlight on Yasmena and her unique human journey. Next, want to provide you the listener with the best practices for effective communication on matters that may be political or social in nature that frequently stir up reptilian emotions without further ado.
Hello? Yes, Mina. How are ya?
Yasmena: hi, Aziz. Hello? I'm good. Thank you.
I'm excited. So thank you for having me again.
Aziz: I'm excited.
[00:00:56] Journalism in NYC vs KWT
Aziz: So let's start this dialogue by taking a trip down memory lane. So What's it like to be a woman in the field, on the ground in say New York and in Kuwait, what is it?
Yasmena: So I would say There are two differences. So number one, when I was in New York, you know, I was still, you know, a student and so forth. So I definitely didn't have as much credibility as I do right now. And so I would say in that aspect, it was difficult. Claiming that you're NYU student reporting for our class is very different than saying I'm a journalist reporting for said. Newspaper that is more or less known. So that, there's that difference. But I want to go back to your question about How it is, you know, being a woman on the ground in Kuwait.
And I just wanted to point out that there are two folds to it. So number one, just being a journalist in Kuwait is tough in itself because a, it is not a respected profession in Kuwait. And it's seen as someone who is, you know, at government events or, you know conferences, you know, just covering what's being said, or is just invited by, someone from parliament or some, a big shot that is giving a talk or so forth.
So it's, it's not seen as someone that is, you know, on the ground doing investigative work and trying to come out. With, factual reporting about what's going on. Add to that, that already journalism is not respected on top of that as being a woman creates it creates even bigger obstacles.
So since you mentioned that I mainly cover political and social issues. The political scene here in Kuwait is heavily male dominated. And so. Speaking to, you know men on different subjects while many of them, you know, are very open and very helpful can be very intimidating as a young Kuwaiti woman.
Aziz: So, I mean, what, what all, everything that you just said to me, points to you, developing whether you like it or not thick skin. Right. And, and. Was the, I mean, obviously with growing there always comes back.
[00:03:02] Growing pains of your journey
Aziz: And so what are some of the growing pains from your journey, from the graduate to a journalist on the ground? What are some of the, the, the pain points that you struggled with and overcome to develop that thick skin?
Yasmena: So I would definitely say that one of the things that I had to learn was. Getting out of my comfort zone and being comfortable with approaching people that I even, even though I felt that I'm going to get rejected, you know, and being like, you know, I want to do this interview or I wanted to talk to you about something or I wanted, you know, to get more information on something.
Before I used to hold myself back, just because of the fear of rejection, but that's something I've. Taught myself to overcome and understand that that is a part of growing as a journalist. And other aspects I've been trying to teach myself is that you can't please everyone. So, you know, could write about, I don't know, like crayons and someone wouldn't be too happy about the topic.
So definitely fixed then is very important, especially when you're covering touchy sub touchy subjects, whether they be political or social issue.
Aziz: Uh, let's go back to being on the ground. Right. So, yeah. In New York, right? There is a very popular Instagram account called humans of New York.
And in my opinion, one of the best journalistic pieces that we have online. Right. And it's, it's something that you know, a normal citizen just. Started on a whim and just kind of became a huge and conduct cement the lives of new Yorkers at a very deep level.
[00:04:38] role of journaists in age of social media
Aziz: So what is the role of journalists today in the age of social media and technology, where bystanders can document and broadcast historic events with a click of a button sometimes better than the traditional journalists.
Yasmena: for sure. You said that perfectly, and there's actually a term for that and it's called citizen journalism and it's like anyone that has a cell phone, a tablet, a laptop, whatever some form of device can pull out and capture. Any moment in front of them. And publish it on social media and definitely serve as a worthy testimony of what's happening on the ground.
And you'll see, for example, that big publication like Reuters, for example has a special Twitter account called Reuters. I, I witnessed. That basically just goes through social media and looks for videos or photos that they can use then to incorporate in their either video productions or print pieces that are taken by, you know, the average citizen.
And so to answer your question, anyone can, be a reporter today. And I think social media has played an important role in allowing. Anyone with, as I mentioned a device to tell what's happening on the ground, especially when, you know, there are big barriers because of news corporations that don't allow, you know, anybody to become or joined the ranks of a reporter or correspondent
and so I would definitely say I'm a huge advocate of social media, but at the same time, I'm also a skeptic because there is a lot on social media and there's a lot that you have to filter through to get to the actual hard fact truths. And there is, you know, I hate using this word, but a lot of fake news out there that, Not everyone would necessarily see it as fake news because we started taking news on social media, as you know, this is it. This is the, the, the accurate thing.
[00:06:34] How Journalists Remain Relevant in Age of Social Media
Aziz: So what's the, the safety mechanism for the journalists. How can the journalists remain relevant in the world of social media?
Yasmena: So I definitely think that once you start building a name for yourself, you definitely start becoming more credible and therefore you start to build a following for yourself. And so with that comes great responsibility because more eyes and ears are on you and more people will start to take what you say as if it's, you know, the heart, truth.
And so I think in my opinion, there is nothing that separates,, uh, person compared to a journalist. But like I said, with time as a journalist, you build a following and therefore more people, take what you say is to be the whole heart of truth.
[00:07:19] Liberal social media influencers
Aziz: so it seems like instead of forming a bridge between people, social media is widening the schism. How can we bridge the gap between the conservative and liberals that seem to always be at, at odds
Yasmena: I would say is, especially in a place like Kuwait, You definitely need to have the conversation in both English and Arabic so that you're not alienating anyone because you have, you have a large population that predominantly speaks Arabic, but at the same time, you have a large population that predominately only speaks English.
And so being able, you know, this, the language is always a big barrier and knowing who your audience is. And speaking in that language will definitely change the way the conversation goes. .
And so I definitely think that looking at it at a wider lens is very important because once we start thinking, okay, everyone around me is thinking the same way. What more can I do? We need to remember that there's a huge percentage of people out there that don't think like you and I do. And so we need to remember that That's the reason why the fight needs to go on. And while I agree that oftentimes it might feel like an echo chamber. And you feel like, you know, you're.
You're just talking to like minded people. There are definitely a lot of people out there that don't necessarily think in a way that is more, progressive and in line with, you know, justice for all and so forth.
Aziz: and I think it's also important for us to be fair and say that the closed minded can be used for people that identify as conservative and identify as liberal as well, because there are a lot of. Liberal people that may be closed minded that don't want to speak about, about certain issues.
I mean, I've seen it when I was living in Boulder, Colorado, which is extremely liberal, but then when Trump was president.
No one there who was liberal and voted for Hillary Clinton wanted to speak about, positive, pertaining to Trump, right. Or pretending to the conservative party. Right. And so close minded can be both for both. Right. We don't want to alienate anyone here. All right. So
[00:09:31] Interacting with clickbait culture
Aziz: The more eyes on an article, right? The more successful the journalists. And I've noticed a great deal of provocative titles in articles as a method of remaining relevant. So.
how would you interact with a journalistic or a pseudo journalistic environment that craves clickbait and ask vocative questions to muddy the message with emotion.
Yasmena: That's something. I honestly, you know, like, Have really tried to learn how to, to not tolerate, but not get aggravated on when reading the news here in Kuwait, because it happens more than often. And to be honest, not only in Queens, you know, this happens across the world and there's this ongoing conversation about with journalists across, across the world.
And it's like, you know, when, when you draw the line, when do you, say, okay, this is where I am going to stop because now I am infringing on someone's, you know, maybe privacy or, you know, taking it a bit too far. And so I think that sticking to the facts will always speak volumes and, you know sharing the facts and, you know, constant, like I said, communication is.
Better than, you know going for, emotional contents that will give you more clicks because, you know, that's the clickbait phenomenon and it's like, how many views can you get? How many shares can you get? How many likes and so forth? And so while reaching a big audience is very important. I personally believe that it shouldn't be at the hands of someone's, you know, suffrage. And I actually remember this a huge conversation was sparked. I forgot what year it was, but the little Syrian boy that was washed off the shores of the water and the photo was taken of him face down, you know and let how my dead by the shores, as he was trying to escape war, torn Syria and make it to Europe.
And I remember that photo while, you know, Was seen by people, you know, all over the world, if not almost everyone, you know, that has access to some form of social media um, sparked conversation and said while yes, this definitely shed light on the suffrage of Syrian refugees. Was it worth taking that photo?
[00:11:48] Photo of the syrian child
Aziz: Wow. Huh? And what are your thoughts on that? Do you think it was worth taking that photo?
Yasmena: I don't know, honestly, I don't know. I think it definitely sparked a conversation. But I don't know, like there's a lot of details we might have not known was the family okay. With it. You know how did the photographer approach. Before to what was the main purpose of this photo?
Like what was it intended to capture and so forth? And so I think there's a lot that we don't know, but it's definitely a question that I still keep having with myself and saying, you know, like I mentioned, where do you, where do you draw the line?
Aziz: that's a very good point. That's a very good point because my knee jerk reaction would be like, we should have, I mean, the age of information, we should have access to as much information as possible. But what that does is it could, you could be receiving that information at the cost of some, some other person's life and emotions and, and suffering. Right? So, so that is, I think something that is very important too, to be aware of is, is I think. There is exchange value when it comes to information and there is experiential value, right? And I think a lot of people are putting more weight on the exchange value.
How much is this photo worth? Whether it be for money or for likes or for views, whatever, that's the exchange value, but they don't. Take into account any of the experiential value of the suffering that the mother or the father might be feeling, or just the people in general on those boats for days in the choppy waters of in Europe.
So that is a, that's a very well, that's a, it's a big paradigm shifted there for me. So thank you for, for, for bringing that up. Okay.
[00:13:34] Palesteinian war crimes
Aziz: So the war crimes going on, because there right now has. Totally rocked the Arab world. It happened, but by the end of Ramadan, in the beginning of aid and it completely ruined my aid celebrations.
And I feel voiceless once I said, so how can a normal person like me not only be more active on social media for this important cause, but also be effective.
Yasmena: Definitely. So I would say is that by codes, I am a firm believer of the BDS movement by code divestment in sanction. It worked during the apartheid of South Africa. And I know that it would work with, you know, ending the occupation and ending the apartheid because you know we, we know at this point that Israel has, you know, strong Glavine power, not only in the U S but across the world.
And it has very strong and powerful allies that will, not put any political pressure on them. So the other route to take is to put an economic pressure on them and to buy caught companies that are making profits off of the Eagle occupation and the apartheid. And while I'm sure a lot of Your listeners have seen on social media, big lists of companies going around saying, you know, by caught this by Cuttack, I would urge everyone to do a little bit more digging and to look into the reason behind, by cutting such companies, because a lot of the more established BDS movements have descriptions as to why you should buy caught certain companies.
So for example HP, HP is one of the first companies that we're called to be by coated because they provide the Israeli checkpoints um, with all the software systems. And as you know I'm sure many of, you know, and for those that don't Horrendous things happen at the checkpoints and they serve as major, you know, reminders that while what's currently happening is devastating.
The occupation affects Palestinians lives daily. By simply having to cross through this either legal border wall or checkpoint to get from their place of work to their home or vice versa.
Aziz: Just to put the checkpoints into perspective. I read an account of an old lady who unfortunately has cancer, who needs to cross the checkpoints to get her chemotherapy therapy treatment. And. She needs to transfer through three separate ambulances and it usually takes upwards of two hours to go from visa to across the borders and checkpoints to get her treatment.
That's how inhumane the situation is over there.
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[00:16:47] Best Practices for Not Geting Too Excited on a Topic
Aziz: Being that you're an eloquently spoken communication steward.
what are some of the best practice that you may keep in your back pocket to calm yourself down? Whenever you're getting too excited about like a sensitive or a political topic.
Yasmena: So it's tough because like, I always have to remind myself about the negative outcomes. And so just to make sure that I don't get myself into trouble. So I'll just like, you know, either, you know send it over to a friend or someone, you know, that I know has experienced in this background and be like, Hey, can you take a look at it before I send it in?
Just to make sure that it's okay. I also really try as hard as I can to follow this practice of Sending the quotes that I use of my sources to them to approve before I do end up publishing the piece. Just as a way to obviously maintain a relationship and a bridge between the sources, but also to ensure that they are comfortable and not to get them into trouble per se by what they say, because, you know, it's their name at the end of the day.
And so those are some of the practices that I, you know, have been following And obviously just trying to be mindful and reading the room and, you know, trying to understand, you know, what's, what's the atmosphere on set topic at the current moment.
Aziz: right. And I always advocate for reading the room, but sometimes some, you know, even I, the person who it's honestly the mantra read the room can unfortunately not read the room and say some things that that can really get everyone. Gunning for your head, right? So I think it's very important to be mindful and to like like you just mentioned is using vocabulary, right? You use vocabulary that your audience can not only understand, but usually uses so that you can have that dialogue. Right. So if you, if you're being condescending and mansplaining, then no one wants to speak to you.
And so What tips do you have for people to be more effective at getting their message across.
Yasmena: So I would say like try to speak in a manner that reaches as many people as possible. And so sometimes we tend to speak in a vacuum. So not only communicating with like-minded people might feel, you know, more comfortable and easy, but having these awkward and harder conversations is what's actually going to, you know, let you get your message across. And also try to talk out of the bubble and talk to people that don't necessarily have the same viewpoint as you. So that goes back to, you know, trying not to speak into this, you know, vacuum.
[00:19:11] How to filter out fake news
Aziz: Uh, How can we filter? And I know you hate this word, fake news from objective and neutral news.
Yasmena: Yeah. Okay. So I would say number one gets your information from more than one source. Because all of us, myself included have our own biases and sometimes it's hard, you know, to filter it out. And so reading or listening or, you know, watching different publications or.
Platforms and stuff can, you know, give you insight into a different point of view or perspective. And so definitely getting your information from one source is very important. Because also sometimes not each, for example, news article has all the information you need. So maybe, you know, this one will have like, you know, 70% of what's going on.
The other one will have also 70%, but. 10% was not in the other piece or so forth. I also say always follow on the ground journalists because they do fantastic work and They are very, you know well-versed in the environment that they're in. and so not only do they have an understanding for the searching topics that they're talking about or or writing about, but they also understand the culture and the background and therefore have a more nuanced understanding of uh, what's happening.
Um, Number three, I think this is self-explanatory you get your news from reputable news sources, you know there's a lot out there. And there's a lot that, Are not necessarily as accurate as others. And so definitely try to get it from more reputable sources. And then finally, regardless of where you're getting your news.
from always questioned the validity of what you're reading and do your own research.
And so if you stop at something and think like, oh, this sounds weird. Or maybe this is not, you know, I've never heard this before. Maybe look it up and you'll find something, you know, About it, you know, maybe you learn something new that you didn't, or maybe the way that it was phrased was not correct.
And therefore was not, phrased differently. So it gives off a different understanding, meaning.
[00:21:14] Favorite news sources
Aziz: yeah. Some of your favorite objective and neutral journalists or media sources. I really like secular talk it's on YouTube and I like Jimmy Dore but but yeah, I don't really know anymore. I really like empire files as well with Abby, Martin, who are some of yours.
Yasmena: Okay, you're going to kill me, but this is me being, you know, inclusive again. But I would say some of my favorite news organizations are independent news organizations that are not run by big conglomerates and therefore. Or have more of a freedom to speak on topics of their choice and can call out you know, different different people and different topics.
And then same, I go back to journalists on the ground. They don't necessarily have to be from the place, but there are on the ground reporting from those areas.
[00:22:03] Important Message to audience
Aziz: Okay, beautiful. So what's an important message that you want our audience to take away from our discussion. You've you've said so many important messages. but what's an important message that you want our audience to take away from our discussions.
Yasmena: So, although there's so much, online And you know, so much news to consume, I always say whenever you are reading or listening or watching the news. Be mindful that there's more that isn't being said. So I urge you to go and do your own research and try to look up information on your own because you know, there, there is more to than what's being reported.
Aziz: And what's that you can give our listeners to improve their work life. I mean, I asked you that question because you write multiple articles a day. You are on the ground, you. Who are covering multiple different scenarios of, of society.
[00:23:00] How to be efficient
Aziz: So, so how can our listeners be more efficient, maybe like you.
Yasmena: oh, this is a hard one, but I've been trying to practice it, practice what I preach myself. And so, you know, I have a really hard time doing this, but I'm trying to get better at it, but it's basically, you know, once you reach the stage of. Burnout or feeling overwhelmed. You just really need to take time for yourself, like, especially in an industry where literally the news never seeps.
Uh, There are these where I'll be like Okay. I'll just, put my phone away and just sit down and just, spend time, you know, doing something that I love that does not require me checking on the news or checking my email and so forth while that is definitely easier said than done.
It definitely keeps me, you know from, collapsing completely.
Aziz: Yeah, and getting burnt out. You already mentioned one book to us and I'm getting greedy, but
[00:23:56] Book that inspired you
Aziz: what's another book that inspired your life's journey.
Yasmena: Oh, so there's this book. If you haven't tried this book yet you have to read it. It's called our women on the ground. It's a fantastic, fantastic book. And I, you know, one of my all time favorites and it's basically a book that shares a story of 19 Arab journalists.
Working across the region and they're basically short essays about their lives. And it's just so well put together the stories are so raw. It's very diverse. And it's, you know, it's, it's a great, great book. And it just puts the spotlight on these 19 women that are doing some amazing work on the ground.
[00:24:35] How to support you
Aziz: Our women on the ground. Alrighty. We'll also put that in the description.
Where can we find you on social media and how can we support you?
Yasmena: So you?
can follow me on Twitter at Yasmina and Mona or on Instagram artists, meaner rights. Um, You can also check out my website and read my latest articles. And so, yeah, I guess that's how you can support me.
Aziz: phenomenal.
You're you're absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for having this conversation with me. I learned so much from this conversation. I look forward to having you back and I really hope that you did not walk away from this discussion saying, oh, it's another one of those boring interviews. So thank
you.
So Amina.
Yasmena: really fun. Honestly, I enjoyed your questions. You're actually also a really active listener, which also keeps me on my feet because you always come back with a rebuttal, which is very, you know, fun. And so, no, thank you. This was a really, really fun podcast to do.
Aziz: thanks for coming on the show and we'll be talking to you soon. Thank you so much as me, Anna.
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