Food with Dana Alsalem Rev C
Aziz: Hello, and welcome to broadband here at broadband, Willy by the philosophy that one needs other human beings to teach them how to be human.
Our guide for today on this journey of communal actualization is Dana Al Mutawa the managing partner of acquire a privately owned food and beverage company that operates some of your favorite Kuwaiti franchises and homegrown concepts from munch to Upper Crust pizzeria re cleanse Rare Cuts, Magnolia bakery, and many more
Dana is also the friendly face behind Sadeer farms. Originally a 350,000 square meter goat farm that now plants and supplies, Kuwait with diverse and delectable offerings from leafy kale and red lettuce to starchy corn and utilitarian lupus.
I want to set the stage for this interview by shining the spotlight on three main points of focus for our dialogue, the first being Dana and her unique human journey. Next. I want to dig deep into the rich soil of Sadeer farms and learn about their wins, their obstacles and their dreams.
And finally, since everyone with a patch of dirt started to farm at home during the pandemic, I want you to listener to be able to walk away from this conversation with some of the best tips and practices to apply to your own post pandemic, home farms and green projects without further ado. Hello Dan, how are you?
Dana: I'm very good. Thank you? for having me today. Really excited. It's my first podcast.
Aziz: Oh, thank you for joining. And I'm so glad that we can, be a part of your podcast journey. Thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.
[00:01:27] The start of the journey
Aziz: And so, since this is your first podcast, let's talk bit about beginning, the Genesis of Donna and the food and beverage world. So knowing Kuwait and for the listeners that are not very familiar, our culture values a very select group of vocations.
In many cases, parents try to convince their children to pursue a medical career or to be a lawyer and engineer or your risk, kind of a lifetime of guilt trips. And I told you so's were you encouraged to pursue one of the quote unquote acceptable career paths before participating in the food and beverage scene?
Dana: Yes for sure. Um, our family business is contracting. So my dad asked me to go into interior design. When I first started college and I did, I committed to two years, which is a long time for me uh, before I decided to actually go into political science and then. To that from political science to food was an actual, interesting jump that happened.
Um, Seven or eight years after uh, working in political science were a bunch of friends from the states. So we were all together, the nukes national unit students and uh, we started the company together and Kuwait, and the idea was we're going to start fundraising for campaigns. And , slowly realized quit was not ready to do that.
And we said, Okay. we have a company, we started it. We have the partners when we opened up a restaurant. And that was the beginning.
Aziz: That's insane from super PACS to a phenomenal kind of restaurant business or I would say maybe like a company, is that how acquire started?
Dana: Exactly. Acquire, start to Delta as a fundraising company. And, after that we opened up a munch in.
[00:03:04] Selling Food for Fund Raising
Aziz: That's amazing. That's fantastic. so, okay. So take it that it, wasn't always your vision to kind of be in the food and beverage world, but what was that conversation between you and your best friends and trying to say, Hey, why not? I mean, Kuwait's not ready for the political aspect of fundraising, but maybe we can sell some food in the process.
Dana: So the way, the way the conversation happened was this really? So if we can't fundraise efficiently, how about we have events where we can fundraise through, and then we said, okay, so then we should have an occasion where we can do it because you cannot back then legally rent a space and have an event and sell tickets to.
So what if we had our own restaurant and we used to bring in artists, that was the idea that never actually happened. So we'd bring in artists from Lebanon, for example, and that fundraising would go towards a campaign in Lebanon. So that was the idea. So if we own the restaurant, then we would be able to bring in the artists.
And from there, we'd be able to continue with fundraising. Um, Location didn't work out. We realize we needed a much bigger space. We would need stages. We would need all of that. But the food development process had already started. So we just continued with that idea and left the fundraising aside.
[00:04:11] The Emergence of Kale
Aziz: That's phenomenal. And I know that uh, is part of another one of acQuire's franchises here in Kuwait with re cleanse you know one of your aha moments came from when you were sourcing kale, and then you said, Hey, why don't we plant this ourselves? So talk to us a little bit about how that happened.
Dana: Um, So my partner had salon in there and Reclense the idea of the cleanses that you joined us from 23 to five days, and you don't eat anything. All you do is you drink juice.
Aziz: Um,
Dana: The main ingredient that you need in those juices has to be kale. And kale went from being the garnish of Turkey, where it was like super dirt cheap to becoming the most expensive antioxidants, the most nutrient greens available in like literally 15 years in the states.
So what happened when kale became, oh okay. The super greenhouse uh, was the prices skyrocketed. And um, we would only find it probably once or twice a week being brought in from California and so fan center. So we used to buy it for the juices. There was no suppliers bringing it in. There was just that one salvia branch, if I'm not mistaken.
So Don center Noah's seven and a half D Akila. when you cold press, so that's, if you have about a kilo of vegetables, once you cold press it, you're getting about 80 grams of pure juice. So can you imagine that? So Realized it's not possible. We can't, you know, obviously sustain it. We had to find another way.
So if I had, there's like, let's try growing kale. And we had the farm back then, but the farm was mainly just for the sheep and the goats. we tested it out in our backyard. It did fantastically well continued with us almost till August, which is like unheard of for vegetables to last that long
So that was literally the aha moment when we said, okay, so we can grow kale. Are we growing? Anything else? You know, it's only made more sense, you know, the same way when we travel, we get jet lag that happens to your vegetables. let's just cut the whole process and start growing everything right here in Kuwait. And we went through the list. What's our second most used item in the ingredients. It was a beetroot, then it was carrots. Then we realized, oh, we need salary with the whole salary cleanse that's happening now.
And obviously being that the seasons don't allow us to have it all year round. So in the summers we'll switch to maintaining the citrus and the winter. We have, you know, all the nice hearty green vegetables and leafy greens that come out. And we're just trying to figure out the seasons to make sure that we don't disconnect from what we have always um, available for the juices.
[00:06:34] How are farmers viewed?
Aziz: Yeah. And so journey is so interesting. So from, you know, fundraising for a political aspirations to uh, creating a food group to becoming one of the full fledged farmers here in Kuwait, talk to us about how farmers are actually viewed in Kuwait. And I mean, you said in the very beginning, the farm was a family farm. And for the most part, it was just for, you know, livestock for sheep and goats. So how are farmers actually viewed in Kuwait?
Dana: Well, I mean, I'm sure most people have seen it driving down into any of the farming zones and quakes, whether it'd be Wafula or whether it be ideally lots of large spaces, very empty so unfortunately the system of Getting a farm and creating a farm and building a farm and being able to grow in it. Um, Hasn't really kicked off in quite the way it should be because unfortunately, most of the people that do have farms, I would consider them to be more like a hobby farmers.
Uh, So they grow for their friends, their family, small clots, only around where their houses, where does the rest of the forms completely empty.
So. Trying to figure out ways where, okay, we have the land, but we don't have the infrastructure of being able to run such a large land with enough water. We don't have enough rain. It gets really hot. Everything dies out in the summer. How can you create a farm where everyone can come visit and see and have it green throughout the year, as much as you can, and still being able to maintain it during the this time. And it wasn't easy. So I don't blame a lot of the farmers in Kuwait where I've not been able to do it. It's not easy at all. It's a full-time commitment.
Uh, I'm seeing a new trend happening and I'm sure you are too. I'm seeing a lot of people going back and maybe Corolla did this. They're investing in their farms again. Hydroponics is coming into Kuwait with big demand.
I'm seeing a lot of new greenhouses being built in that area. So I think food security And the pressure and what's happened with Corona made us realize, oh, wait a second. We can't depend on imports for the rest of our life. So slowly, slowly, there are changes happening. And I hope that we see it, you know, eventually where that all farmers forced to use their brains.
[00:08:43] How can we improve the farming system?
Aziz: And what you just said is a perfect segue into my next question, because I, when I was doing my research before this interview, learned that the UN's food and agriculture organization estimates that Kuwait has around 3000 farms across the country with most farms not relied on for economic returns.
Like you mentioned, hobby farmers, and a lot of these, these farms aren't seen or used for a main source of income. So it seems that Kuwait's farming culture is actually one of subsidized leisure rather than intense production. And so how can we, I mean, you mentioned that it was very difficult for these farmers to actually go in and, be productive, but how can we improve the system to be more productive?
Dana: Honestly, I'm probably going to get a lot of hate for saying this, but I do believe that subsidizing has hurt us a lot, because what happens when you subsidize their choosing specific items that can be subsidized, which are able to grow very fast in Kuwait. For example, cucumbers, tomatoes, corn cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, and so on.
But they don't give you any specifications of, of, um, the size of how it has to be grown and how it has to be sold. So if I'm being subsidized by a carton by wait, what do I end up doing? Not us, but with this, there's a form ended up doing, they overgrow the cucumbers to the point where they're not tasting any.
But it fills up the carton much faster. Should I get more subsidy back on my cucumbers? And they tend to do that with all the crops. when we all know that some crops actually tastes a lot better when they're just coming out to just buy the thing or, you know, like baby cucumbers when they're in season, no one would ever think about doing it, baby carrots, no one would ever think about doing it.
You know, many cauliflower heads, no way fresh greens. No. I want to keep it maximum amount in the ground for me to get to my KD value on the weight.
So that's, the toughest part. And, I'm sure you've also noticed when you go to the Germania to buy your local ingredients, it's always the same things over and over and over again, you know, every now and then you'll find a supplier who's importing some really cool stuff from Holland and has all these nice, fun colors.
We can grow all of that equate. We can do it, you know? It's just that there's no support in doing it. So everyone says, okay, fine. Let me stick the list that I have
where
Aziz: So, I mean,
[00:10:53] How to reduce the risks in farming?
Aziz: I see. And so, and so it's all about risk, but then you were saying that the co-ops will only accept certain subsidized off the list produce. So how can you take risks to the market? I mean, are you doing from any unique perspective where you're selling directly to customers and say, forget about the cops entirely.
Dana: Um, we do it with restaurants I'm sure you've seen the huge trend that you have now with all the new chefs and all the new quickie graduates they're coming back. They're opening the most amazing restaurants. And I think I am proud to say probably like Right. now, we're one of the strongest countries with local chefs to the extent where we're actually going abroad with Kuwaiti concepts who would have thought 20 years ago, you know, Fridays was the top restaurant in Kuwait. And now look at us, you know,
Aziz: Right.
Dana: the states.
Aziz: Exactly. That's amazing. We got a bad deal doing Chestnut. We have been on Facebook and messenger. You bring in, you know Korean American food here in Kuwait with spirit and McCann. We have some of the most phenomenal chefs. Um, and so, and so we interviewed actually one of those chefs, we interviewed and he spoke about Kuwait's unique ability to afford, to import the best produce in animal products in the world.
[00:11:58] Competing with Global Suppliers
Aziz: So does it feel like so deer farms and local farmers are competing the customer's attention with like the farms in Holland and Belgium in South
Dana: Yeah, absolutely. I've seen some of my products actually go to to like private supermarkets. I can't say where and be labeled as from Holland because they know that when you say Holland, you can make that extra margin on it. Whereas if it's cheaper. So definitely anything from abroad is more exotic it's going to be of a higher standard.
Aziz: So how are you pivoting around that? Or how are you trying to address the local market and try to maybe change system so to speak have people want to support the local farms?
Dana: we're trying really hard with getting the word out that, you know, if you have a concept or if you have a brand, there's something that you can't find you want to work on a seasonal menu. Come through us, sit with us, give us your ideas, give us your menu. We'll grow for you. We will create a system where we can cover you at least seven to eight months out of the year with your basic needs from Kuwait.
And then you can work with the suppliers international importers during the off months where it's too hot to grow. And I think that has given us a bit of a push to continue in that market of growing off the damn list. Vegetables, which allows us to say, Okay. yeah, let's try out some rainbow carrots in Australia out like red kale.
Let's try out like spotted lettuce, you know, all this stuff that you wouldn't think about, even seeing equate.
And you know, it's working with chefs like Faisal homage, chef Mimi, all of them come to us, you know, like meet me when she was opening up her rational. Like she needed a bunch of like ingredients that she'll never find in Kuwait.
And I was like, they're gonna be too hard to grow, you know, stick to a supplier. I'm telling you from now some stuff would not work. You have like chef Arakan, who's opening up a Mexican restaurant here in Mexican peppers. I was like, great. We can do that for your peppers. Do really well. And Kuwait, we can support you
[00:13:42] Collaborating with Local Chefs
Aziz: so there's a, there's this active engagement with the local culinary scene and there's this collaboration and there's, you're calibrating your produce based on that collaboration and, and you see this kind of active dialogue being something that's going to grow within the foreseeable future. Uh, and what is some of the technology that you need to maybe invest in so that you can start producing and supplying even on the off months?
Dana: You know, it's interesting when we're eating at home, we know the source of everything that we're eating. When you go to the Germania, you pick up a packet of Lubner, you're checking if it's from Lebanon or if it's Turkey, or if it's a brand that you like, but we don't do that with fruits and vegetables. For some reason, we just see it. We don't even bother asking where it's from.
So this dialogue that's happening now with chefs and what's happening now with also consumers is I want to know the source of my ingredients. I want to know who the person is behind it. That's growing it. I want to make sure, sure that it's done in the Right. way as a being, this is not. this is the NGM. Was it a GMO? Is it organic? These are the questions that we really have to start asking. And this comes with awareness and I think this awareness happened with the internet, obviously with the access for everyone having a phone in their hand makes you able to ask a question, having Instagram. Well, let me shoot out a message.
Hey, is your kale organic? My mom, you know, can only eat organic kale and these conversations that we have back and forth that makes you realize, okay. I need to start changing target and changing my audience to figure out what they want, what they need uh,
as for technology, this is probably one of the toughest things.
Um, It's trying to get a lot of other farmers on board also with us, because I think, you know, if we were to compare international farming to Kuwait, we're probably still in the eighties in the sense where everything's quite manual. Uh, We still rely on individuals to plant the seeds, to harvest the crops.
Um, Scenery is used unless it's one of those hydroponic farms. So the investment is high. Keep that in mind.
[00:15:37] Intermission
Aziz: Hey guys, this is the part of the podcast where people usually tell you to buy this product or subscribed to this service, but we don't have any sponsors yet. So we'll sell ourselves. Instead. We have four simple asks one, please subscribe. If you haven't already. To share the podcast, share it with your friends, share with your family and share it with a stranger. Start a conversation, three, check out the show notes. You can find all the references that we've already made and are about to make on there. And for engage with us on Instagram and email, enjoy the rest of the show.
[00:16:09] Social Media
Aziz: And so you mentioned Instagram and social media. And whenever I mentioned Sudhir farms to my family and friends, one, they all know you and two, they all love you. They say, love them. I follow them on Instagram. so how instrumental has your inviting social media presence been to your growth and to your strategy of opening up your doors and having people harvest their own plants?
Dana: Okay. So our Instagram account was created by my nephew. He was five years old or six years old when he created the account and Instagram was just, you know, still getting a strong equate. It wasn't a very popular, and I realized he was posting like inappropriate stuff, you know, like my dad's sitting in a corner and like, the comment didn't make sense.
So I said, for who the I'm going to like help you with the account, if you don't mind, can I have the password I'm going to like, you know, just edit to whatever you have written and so on. He was like, yeah, yeah, sure. And then he forgot about the account. And slowly, slowly, uh, we started you know, posting more showing more of the farm.
So I asked my father, I said, why don't we open it up? Everyone else around this is open to the public. Let's create a system where people can come and learn. Let's be a learning farm as opposed to a commercial farm. Like a lot of the other ones have been done.
And it ended up working really well for us. Uh, I think this was one of the main drivers, which made me say, okay, since we have so many people coming into the farm, let's give them something wow. look at let's give them that moment where they say, I can't believe this is growing equate.
I can't believe this is the picture that I can take and say, this is quit. And I think people need that space to just like, let, go and forget about the world and just walk around and be surrounded by nature, which we don't have in Kuwait. Unfortunately,
and I think that's the beauty of the farm when you're there. There's nothing really built up. It's quite simple.
Aziz: Hmm.
Dana: you and the greenery.
Aziz: Right.
Dana: that was the case.
Aziz: Yeah. And, and, uh, I landed with Tom, uh, said something very intriguing about art and the mass, his favorite kind of arts. And it's usually uh, you know it's usually an open spaces of nature of a lake or something people want that, you know, Placid feeling that they can get from Sudhir farms.
And so that is, I guess, a phenomenal strategy that you've implemented is opening up your doors and, educating the people having them walk around and feel at peace.
[00:18:22] How to stay relevant?
Aziz: But you've also offered other solutions so how does Sudhir farms position itself to stay relevant and the public conversations season after season?
Dana: So I have a goal every year to bring in five new items that have never been seen in Kuwait, or very hard to grow in Kuwait and are impossible. To grow in our climate. And I think that's what makes us relevant. And people want to keep coming back to us and checking our pages like, oh, what are they up to?
our last one was popcorn. So we decided to have quality popcorn which is, you know, I mean, yeah, I don't think you've heard of that happening in the region anywhere. I mean, we don't make money off it it's we lose a lot of money because the corn has to stay eight months in the ground, but it's one of those things where like, yes, we can do it. can find a way to make it happen. So our next venture is dragon.
[00:19:07] Selecting The Right Crops
Aziz: Dragon for it. Okay. So, so this kind of brings me series of questions about exotic fruits and vegetables, knowing that we have such a very hot and harsh environment. Um, but How much research goes into selecting the right crops and ensuring that they'll thrive in our hot and hush environment?
Dana: Oh, with us, a lot of research and a lot of areas and properties have actually never even germinated because we've bought the wrong seeds and they just don't work with our climate. And I prefer not to use the seeds that are available in the marketing grade because most of them are GMO and they're pushed by big companies.
Without, you know, seeing the names. Uh, but if you, if you, if you Google it to them, they're all owned by Monsanto. They're smaller companies in this region that no one knows off base. If you do your research, you realize that. So I tend to buy my seeds from abroad and this year, what I'm aiming to do is actually try and save seeds.
Uh, So this will be our second year where we save seeds and we replant them again. And if you can get fourth-generation seeds grown in Kuwait, then you can say, yes, these will work with our climate and they will no issues with what's happening. So this season we'll be going into
Aziz: Oh, wow. I see. So essentially what you're doing is you're creating an evolved and adapted seed. I mean, I mean, through generations of generations. Oh, okay. So it's literally, it's the kind of genetic modification. You're kind of just doing it in an organic fashion.
[00:20:33] Food Waste Problem
Dana: Naturally.
Aziz: Yeah, that's amazing. All right. So,
so you mentioned earlier about how during the pandemic, there was a certain amount of, of food waste specifically when the food went to the market and couldn't go back.
This is something that we saw on a global scale, a new New York times article reported that us farmers were burying or plowing back into the soil. Perfectly good produce that didn't sell. What is Sudhir farm strategy to address food waste and what happens to the produce that doesn't sell?
Dana: Uh, Being a sustainable farm means that you're able to take care of your waste internally. So the amount of sheeps and goats that we have and the ducks, the chickens and so on we literally shred it down and add it to their feed. So nothing goes to waste. Obviously when we have. Extra amounts. It always goes towards charities and so on.
But we're able to control it internally, usually where nothing goes to waste. Um, Even with our juices with our cold pressed juices we press about a hundred kilos of vegetables and fruits per day, so that all the fibers get sent back to the farm and those fibers go towards the chicken and the goats, sorry, the chicken and the ducks.
So there's zero waste happening.
If we have enough extra, we break it down, we turn it into compost. You know, so there's many levels of getting rid of all your extra waste, but there are a lot of people in need then, you know, whenever we do have it, I'd rather give it to people that need before it goes to the sheep and the goats and the other farm animals.
Aziz: I love that. I love that. I mean, it talks about spending money to create cool logos and very aesthetically pleasing branding. But I think your brand is your huge heart and your collective mentality in your community first attitude. So that is absolutely phenomenal.
[00:22:10] Tips for Home Gardens
Aziz: And, okay, so, so tackling food security on a national level might be a tall order. You are certainly working on tackling this problem as well as your colleagues, but our, you know, our listeners can address personal food security at home with home gardens and indoor farming. So what tips and best practices can you share with our listeners who want to develop a green thumb, so to speak?
Dana: So I think herbs are your first step to any Gardner and it's probably one of the things that you use the most on your everyday, everyday life with salads and so on. I would recommend everyone to start with an herb garden and then of course, something that everyone eats and quits.
That's your next step. Super easy. You cut it and it comes back. You cut it and it comes back. It's a very giving plant. Definitely, definitely. I highly recommend for as many people to start gardening within. Even if you have like a pot, that's all you need. You have a little kitchen counter, you have a little sunlight coming in experiments.
Try, learn, try to see what works you, what doesn't. I mean don't go into tomatoes, which are much harder or pumpkins and watermelon stick to the basic. The basic is easy and we actually every season we work with the bop then from a plant and more and we create pots for her and then she takes those pots and gives you all.
She sells the soils, the fertilizers, all the equipment even sells the boxes to start gardening. And um, it's, it's a, it's a one-on-one for anyone who wants to start, you just go into our website and you can have a garden overnight. It's really, you don't even have to worry about this.
Aziz: Beautiful. That's awesome. Straight to your home.
Um, So novice farmer is
[00:23:38] How not to drown your plant
Aziz: often give their plants too much or too little water. I've personally been guilty of this. So how can amateur farmers ensure that they don't starve or drown their plants and give, give them the Goldilocks zone amount of water?
Dana: Technology has taken care of this for you right now. There are so many instruments in the market where you just like, literally you put a pen in there and it gives you the details. If it's blue, it's hydrated. If it's white, give it water. You have pens, you have Bluetooth connections with your phone.
You just write the name of the plant that you have in it. it tells you, Hey, not enough sunlight. Move me more towards the sun. I mean, that's not a concern anymore. I think
Aziz: Yeah.
Dana: to and hosting a garden, you pay an extra TKD and you buy one of those pens and you just put that.
[00:24:21] Favorite Indoor Plant
Aziz: Beautiful. Yeah. It's 2021. I just realized that you can, everyone can get a green thumb and a Bluetooth. It It'll send you a text to your phone. Okay. I can see some, I can see some plants behind you from maybe like a CAC tie to succulents. What's your favorite home plant? I mean, it would, I mean, my end, for example, the snake plant. What's yours.
Dana: Snake plants are fantastic. They're on the nurses list of like purifying the air and I highly recommend we'll have them in bedrooms to have them in areas where you're sleeping. They do really well in bathrooms where there's high humidity. they can withstand any, um, circumstance. I mean, you don't open the door and or lights for two weeks.
They're still alive. They're pretty strong. I love all snake plants, but I think my new passion is succulent
I'm a bit worried because I feel like my passion might take me there and no more growing.
Aziz: cyclins are beautiful. They are absolutely gorgeous. It's actually my go-to gift whenever it's someone's birthday, give them a succulent. so
Dana: so giving you can propagate from them continuously, you know, allie falls, you just take it, you put it to this, another soil and it comes back to life.
Aziz: It's a new document. Exactly. Exactly. and they're really resilient. All they need is to be watered once every two weeks, you know? And they're absolutely phenomenal.
[00:25:33] Important Message
Aziz: Okay. So what's an important message that you want our audience to take away from our discussion.
Dana: Oh, there's a lot of farms not being utilized equate. I'd love to see the younger generation who have the farms of their parents actually put it to good use. Without the government's intervention. I think the youth is going to be able to take care of this and tackle this on their own. Uh, Food security can be organized very easily.
I'm not talking about creating a company or anything like a group of young kids who want to create an NGO who can organize this. Um, I really hope to see a greener ideally and workflow in driving in. And I know it can happen because this generation is able to do anything that they want. they're educated, they have technology in their hands. They can take a picture of a plant and figure out what it was, which was not available to our fathers. And it's ready. It's the is ready for them. They have everything they want from the government. They have to start growing them.
Aziz: Beautiful. Beautiful. So it's a lot easier than you think it is. I mean, a lot of people kind of, put all these mental roadblocks and obstacles that don't need to be there. If you have a dream doesn't, doesn't necessarily have to be farming related. If you have a dream, just take the first step you've already mentioned that before, and I love that.
How can we support you personally done? And it can and sit near farms and acquire. How can we support you?
Dana: Um, I want you to support. I want you to support all farmers, not only us, many people as possible to hear this and realize that a lot of farms are not doing well in Kuwait. They're on the brink of closing down or they're just going to stop watching their greenhouses because it doesn't make sense for them to continue to just keep pumping in money and it's going to waste support your local farmer.
Find out how you can reach out to them, help them out byproducts from them. I think we're at the stage where all restaurants have to be working with farms. It makes no sense to offer something to your clients when you can get something that's 100% quality and local, and you know where it's coming from. Why are you buying from abroad stable?
Aziz: Beautiful data. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and changing our paradigms and expanding our thoughts on the farming world. Really appreciate having you on here. And I'm glad that I could be first podcast experience.
Dana: Thank you. Thank you for having me. And I've never experienced this. I love it. I'm going to ask you to have more podcasts with me.
Aziz: Oh, my goodness. I mean, that would be an absolute pleasure. So thank you so much for joining and uh, and, and we appreciate having you on here. Thank you.
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