Feminism: The Entrepreneur

"I think you can't be what you can't see. So I need to look up to and hear the stories of women who are killing it in STEM, that look like me, that speak like me, for me to think that it's possible for me."

Our guide for today on this journey of communal actualization is Wafa Al Obaidat, the creative director and CEO of the PR design agency, Obai and Hill, the founder of the Women Power Network and the host of the Women Power Podcast.

We want to set the stage for this interview by shining the spotlight on three main points of focus for our dialogue,

- About Wafa and her unique human journey.
- Explore the words like confidence, empowerment, and motivation and what they mean to a successful woman
- Provide you with insights on the habits of successful business owners and introduce you to some resources to achieve your business goals.

References mentioned in this episode:
How to Stay Inspired - An Article by Wafa
Sketchbook Magazine
Drive - A book by Daniel Pink
Antifragile - A book by Nassim Taleb
Lean In - A book by Sheryl Sandberg


Reach out to Wafa at:
Instagram @wafaobaidat
www.wafaalobaidat.com
Obai and Hill (PR Agency)

Reach out to broadband at:
Instagram @broadband.podcast
Email aziz@seedsmedia.org
Other Links

Reach out to luucid at:
Instagram @luucidkw
Website luucidkw.com
For guest recommendations Email hello@luucid.co

Chapters

• 1:47 What is your source of inspiration
• 2:51 The start of your PR agency
• 5:30 The brink of failure
• 7:13 What drove you?
• 8:10 Women in STEM Roles
• 10:33 Autonomy at Risk
• 11:45 Living Abroad
• 13:37 Alternatives to Burning Bridges
• 15:07 Mastery
• 16:42 Intermission
• 17:14 Should All Women Build a Career
• 18:55 How to empower a housewive
• 20:56 Toxic Dependence
• 23:05 Habits of successful women
• 23:49 A habit your grateful for
• 25:09 Coaching people
• 26:40 Book that inspired you
• 27:52 Important Message
• 28:43 How to suuport Wafa
• 29:50 Outro

Transcript

Broadband Podcast

Feminism: The Mentor

Wafa AL Obaidat

Aziz: Hello and welcome to broadband here at broadband, we live by the philosophy that one needs other human beings to teach them how to be human. Our guide for today on this journey of communal actualization is Wafa Al Obaidat the creative director and CEO of the PR design agency, Obi and hill, the founder of the women power network. And of course the host of the women power podcast.
 I want to set the stage for this interview by shining the spotlight on three main points of focus for our dialogue, the first being well, Wafa and her unique human journey. Next, I want to explore the words like confidence, empowerment, and motivation and what they mean to a successful woman. Like Wafa. 
And finally with Wafa's Support I want to provide you the listener with insights on the habits of successful business owners and introduce you to some resources to achieve your business goals 
without further ado. Hello, how are ya? 
Wafa: hi. I'm so excited to be here.
Aziz: oh, he's so excited to have you. Thank you so much for fitting us in. We know you have a busy schedule and I just got to meet your beautiful son. You know, lucky from a lot of perspectives, I guess that's the biggest one. Isn't it? 
Wafa: Yeah. And he's awesome. He's been, you know, the biggest gift of my life and I've waited for him for three years had, you know, multiple attempts at having a baby. So this is he's my Juul.
Aziz: well, he is very precious, so he's definitely a jewel. So let me start with a blast from the past. Right? So in 2012, article titled world, how to stay inspired in your town. You express the dichotomy between an inspirational London of colorful Devale and Zaha Hadid, masterpieces to a content behind, with a stark art scene that left you wanting for more.
[00:01:47] What is your source of inspiration
Aziz: How important was this polarized culture shock to driving you, to create your own infinite wealth of inspiration? 
Wafa: I mean, I think that was, I guess everybody's rites of passage, you know, you can't wait to leave and then you can't wait to come back. So after six years, you know, I was full, I was creatively excited, but I really wanted to change. And I think as a business owner, I saw this huge opportunity.
and I saw the need. I saw the demand. I saw the gaps in this part of the world where, and none did, I thought it was super saturated. there was so much going on. 
And I think, you know, one of my unique selling points is I am from here. I do speak the language, which I understand the culture. So to be able to bridge this creative mindset from Europe, but also offer it sounds really cliche, but like a localized attitude flare to it. I felt like people have resonated with that. 
Aziz: Right. So you felt like a little fish in the ocean that is London, but. What the ocean had was a diversity of experience and a diversity of knowledge. 
[00:02:51] The start of your PR agency
Aziz: And So let's circle back to London in Notting hill, right. that specific part of the world and I've lived there as well, has inspired generations of painters and musicians. And of course, creative, such as yourself. So share with us and, you know, with the audience, the story of the Genesis, the start and the beginning of your PR and design agency of Obi and hill.
Wafa: So before Obama um, one of the first business ventures that actually took off was I launched a digital publication called sketchbook magazine. And I started it from my apartments in Notting hill, because you don't need like a cupboard for registration to do things there. You could just launch from your apartments. 
And I actually. Use my entire, you know, apartment, my one bedroom flat. And I turned it into a studio. I had like 12 people where I came from the living room and people working from the kitchen and people going up and down the stairs and doing photo shoots down the street. So I fully use my apartments as an accelerator to create content. 
And it wasn't income generating. I didn't know how to make money. I wasn't thinking about money. I was actually doing different. I was an editor of a different publication. I was pumping into this magazine and then I got a call from an organization who said, we love what you're doing.
Can you do a pop-up shop for us? So at the time I was like, what is a pop-up? And now that's obviously that's even the norm to understand and know what that is. But, you know, I got offered the space in Carnaby street and I got a KPI. I had to bring in X amount of people per month. And I got some seed funding to do that.
So I hit all my KPIs and they came back and said, listen, we'll give you a bigger check to keep bringing it in. A crowd because every time I brought in you know, we brought some 10,000 people for the first pop-up shop. So every time I create a space that draws in that amount of people, they hung around Carnaby street, they shop, they go around to the different areas.
So I was helping the PR company achieve its goals by doing my part. So after the second pop-up they became my clients and I just had a huge aha moment, like, okay, I can get clients and I can, you know, pay for my time, my services, my ideas. I can actually pay some of the talent that is working with me in the magazine.
And I can then take that money and funnel it back into sketchbook. So there came the birth of the agency. So my first client was actually another PR company who outsourced to me to do a series of events for them and exhibits and pop-up areas around London.
Aziz: that's amazing and so sketchbook was so successful, it was wildly successful and it's very easy to kind of romanticize it. Right. The Notting hill apartment packed with people.
[00:05:30] The brink of failure
Aziz: It's kind of at a scene of a movie, but were there any moments where it felt like you're during like the brink of failure? Like you felt like your baby was going down, like in flames.
Wafa: a great question. And I you're right. It's super, like now, even now looking back, I remember just like the positive moments of it, but like, there were so many horrible dark moments. There was just feeling so lonely because, you know, after six years, a lot of my friends have gone back and just missing a lot of the people I came to London with.
Um, There was also Evenings where, you know, I wouldn't have much money towards the end of the month, just waiting for my next paycheck to come in from my other, you know, my different jobs that I was doing at the time. And just like living off frozen pizza and just like tuna sonnets 
there was also just like not wanting to wake up in the morning sometimes while different team members would come into my apartment, AKA our studio space. And I would just wake up five minutes before they showed up and just having, you know, they'd have to see me in my pajamas and just like, no, there are days where I didn't want to wake up.
I think maybe. Burnt out. Like I got burnt out to lost, but I remember with sketchbook just doing the first pop-up shop. I remember, you know, working for 60 days straight 12 hours a day, because part of my contract with Carnaby street was I couldn't close the shop down. I had to be open. So I had to do the weekend shifts as well as the week shift.
So there was a lot of pressure because if I didn't perform, I'd have to, you know, go back and not go back by choice. So I chose to go back in the end just to really focus on both sketchbook and the agency, because it wasn't financially viable to be able to do it there.
[00:07:13] What drove you?
Aziz: so that was 60 days of working straight, nonstop, sleeping on the floor Is it, was it driven entirely by passion? What drove you to want to do that? 
Wafa: I guess my biggest sense of drive comes from making sure that I'm a great return of investments for my parents. I, you know, they're very good with. Explaining how much they have sacrificed for me to have a great education. And they sacrifice their comforts. They sacrifice, maybe their dreams is sacrifice, doing things that they want to do. So I can live this incredibly privileged life and study work abroad. 
So I think there is such a strong need for me to take care of them, make them proud. And to be financially secure um, and not to be at the mercy of somebody else, like as in to make sure that I can, I'm always at the, at the forefront of my faith and my Destiny's in my own hands. 
[00:08:10] Women in STEM Roles
Aziz: Right. I mean, so so you brushed up on the fact that there aren't many women populating stem roles, right? Career paths and jobs. Right. So how can we get more women in stems and stems for those who are not familiar with science and technology and math? etcetra 
Wafa: I think you can't be what you can't see. So I need to look up to and hear the stories of women who are in stem, passionate about stem, killing it in stem that look like me. That speaks like me, for me to think that it's possible for me. 
Right. Um, So I think that's why we get excited when there's a, you know, when they announce a female minister we're just like, wow, if it's possible for her to be possible for me.
Right. So I think that's why people that come into Harris and Barack Obama are so celebrated because they look like a whole sector of people. And it could be possible for them to get into a position of influence. 
So for me, I feel a great solution other than training and offering all these opportunities for women is just. I want to be just like that, you know, whoever that person is because she wants to go to space and, you know, she's awesome. She's had Jabba and I think, and I'm modest and I want to be like her, and if she could do it, I can do it. Right.
 So I think that's why I even did iron man. I did iron man because I saw a bunch of girls from behind do it. And I was like, wow, like I know these girls, so if they can, or we went to the same school, like, it just seems so much more possible than seeing Lucy Charles crossed the finish line. Right. So I think that's, what's probably, for me, makes the biggest impact.
Aziz: You certainly cannot run an iron man without intrinsic motivation. And, and his two guys have nine book drive, Daniel pink lists, the three core ingredients of intrinsic motivation, one autonomy, or the need to direct your own life and work to mastery, the desire to improve and three, the more personal ingredient, purpose buying in on a big picture and investing in a shared or personal vision.
So the first thing that came to mind with autonomy is a rule that my parents enforced on my sisters, but not on me that for them to get to study abroad, they'll need to get into a med school and only medical school. That's the only profession like if MIT knocks on my sister will be up to his door and says, Hey, I want you to be a nuclear physicist.
[00:10:33] Autonomy at Risk
Aziz: That's a no-go. Now I can imagine there are many such rules that regulate the decisions of women in our culture. Can you recall a moment where you felt like your autonomy was at risk? Just for the part that you are being are living as a woman
Wafa: for sure. I think, you know, just showing a similar story to your sisters. My father wanted me to study finance. So I can go into banking, get a secure job, get a great salary, work my way up, and I think, you know, my mother wanted me to be an entrepreneur and that was so important to her. 
Um, I really enjoyed art class, so it had to be designed because that can be a lot of joy, but my parents together limited beat interior design. 
So it didn't matter though. What I went to college I still have to go with interior design and I loved it. It was the most painful experience for three years to pursue a degree that I didn't want to do. And then when I called them on it, I was like, this, I'm not happy with this course. They're like, well, great. You can come back and you can do whatever you want from the comfort of your own home. 
So I said, no, thank you. I shall graduate. And I made like my, my teacher, I learned from the city as much as I did from the actual college, if not more. 
[00:11:45] Living Abroad
Aziz: And so you say that you loved interior design for three years, but the thing that you got out of it was the fact that you were in London and London was the best professor, right? So do you think that Obi and hill would have been established if you'd never had the opportunity of living in London?
Wafa: of course not. Of course not. And. To be fair. Like my agency was my name first and foremost, but I was really young. I was in my early twenties and didn't have much experience. So the hill was you know, to toast the city that, you know, taught me everything. I knew about life and business and arts and design and independence and myself and on, but also it was a way to create this perception that I had an English partner.
And that works. And I got a lot more responses to my emails and I got projects and, you know, people still think that I have like a global franchise and, you know, that's the power of branding and the power of a name. So, you know, I would go to meetings and they'd be like, well, Mr. He'll be joining us.
And I'd be like, he wouldn't, he will not be joining us at this meeting. 
Aziz: Yeah. that's another scene out of a movie that that would be like a scene in the movie. Right. Or like Mr. This doesn't exist, but there's a business card 
Wafa: Yeah. 
Aziz: Hill on it. 
Wafa: Yeah. My husband used to call my office cause we went, we know we used to work on the same floor before you're buried and he would call me cause you know, we worked in the financial towers and behavior and the financial Harper towers. And so he was anyway, so he had his own office space and I had my own office space, but he would call and be like, can I speak to Mr.
Hill? Like as a joke? And I'd be like, available.
Aziz: Yeah. So, okay. It's, usually a game of balance between one social and personal lives. And I think our society places a lot more weight to social outcomes and consequences over the academic and career outcomes. 
[00:13:37] Alternatives to Burning Bridges
Aziz: So. What advice would you give a woman, a young woman that was, or currently is in your shoes past who feeling restricted by society's constraints or by maybe her family's constraints, but doesn't want to burn any bridges with her family that she loves and adores. 
Wafa: I think One thing that women don't do is they don't try. So they assume that they're going to get a no, because they've always gotten to know aura and Sharla or whatever doors closed in their face. So they just stopped trying, like, what's the point? 
And I'm surprised because I think when you actually do your due diligence and you do, you know, you lay the foundation and you get those acceptance letters to schools, colleges, programs, accelerators, whatever.
I think we get a lot of support because you did the work. So you're going there to say, listen, I've been accepted and I want to join this, you know, experience or I want to travel or, you know, I've done my part. I'm responsible. I want this. So there are a lot of ways to signal to your parents that you are ready for opportunities without having to ask or bag or cry or have a meltdown.
So I think my advice is, you know, never stop trying. My second piece of advice is try to find some Alliance in your family as you know, a sibling, an uncle, a grandmother, or somebody who has your back, who world you know, validate you, who will go to a war with you if needed. Just somebody to just notify you.
Aziz: true. That's a really good point. You know, Wayne Gretzky said you miss a hundred percent of the shots that you don't take, so you might as well give it a go. What's the worst that can happen. They say no. Oh my goodness. Okay. 
[00:15:07] Mastery 
Aziz: Okay. So the second One is mastery, right? The desire to improve. And I can't mention mastery without saying that. And you already mentioned this you're a two time iron man finisher. You're an avid footballer. So what lessons have you learned and applied in your life in both, maybe your social and your professional life from training for competitions.
Wafa: One of my biggest regrets Aziz ever, ever is. I wish I discovered triathlon when I was younger. Like I was exposed to this incredible sports in my mid twenties and I'm just like, wow, what have I been doing all my life? Like sleeping late and waking up late and watching trash TV and what a waste of my life.
And I actually feel with all honesty, I started delivering when I started training 
there were a couple of things that, you know, I've never been exposed to. So I've always done sports, but getting your heart level up to a certain point and keeping it there everyday over and over again, I was on such a high, like on a natural high. My endorphins were through the roof, 
so I was happy. Like all day, every day I was just, you know, the world could be burning and I'd be like, it's fine. We'll be fine. 
So I had such a good attitude so everything in my life was in order.
And you know, the one thing I traded off was my social life. But my iron man community became my friends for the next two years. So I trained with people. Who've become my friends, 
Aziz: right. And I started living when I started training our powerful words from a powerful woman. I really liked that. It's a really good soundbite and I'm sure we'll use it, 
[00:16:42] Intermission
Aziz: Hey guys, this is the part of the podcast where people usually tell you to buy this product or subscribed to this service, but we don't have any sponsors yet. So we'll sell ourselves. Instead. We have four simple asks one, please subscribe. If you haven't already. To share the podcast, share it with your friends, share with your family and share it with a stranger. Start a conversation, three, check out the show notes. You can find all the references that we've already made and are about to make on there. And for engage with us on Instagram and email, enjoy the rest of the show. 
[00:17:14] Should All Women Build a Career
Aziz: Okay. So I know many, this may sound patronizing, but I think that one of the most strategic rewarding and challenging jobs is that of a mother and a housewife. And if you think about it, it's an executive function, right? I mean, you have transferable skills, like people in relationship management, you've got logistic management, so should all women aspire to enter the workforce? 
Wafa: tough question to say yes, would really demean any woman who's chosen to focus on raising her children full-time and taking care of her household but, I mean, I can only talk from my experience the environment I grew up in my mother was very career driven.
She took seven years off to raise us and went back to school and then went back to part-time job, then went to work. And I just, the benefits of having a two income house household is just so valuable. 
Um, My mother was a contributor to my education and she supported us equally. As much as my father, 
And so I just admired her so much for that. Like if she wanted to do something, she didn't have to ask for permission, she could just do it. 
So really depends on your personal goals and what does normalize to you? But in my experience, going back to work, especially after having a child that I started my podcast three months after having a baby brought me back to who I was and you know, who will fall was before pregnancy and before having a baby.
So I think, again, not that it saved me, but I bounced back just to my mind, my identity and myself, because I was able to work. So just to answer your question from my experience, you know, working and achieving is, the way to go
[00:18:55] How to empower a housewive
Aziz: fair enough. Fair enough. you know, obviously entitled to your opinion, and I think a lot of people hold their opinion. I'm one of those, but they're some of my counterparts and my colleagues and friends could be like, no, I mean, I want to get married and all my wife to take care of my kids at home and a survey conducted by the Kuwait central statistical bureau returned that.
86% of eligible men are active in the workforce as opposed to only 57% of women. Right? So that obviously means that there is a large number of women that are at home being Housewives or mothers. 
So one of my real concerns is when a housewife feels like she has lost purpose. For example, when her children are old enough to be autonomous or maybe leave the house. So how can we, you know, now that these women are chosen to be Housewives, how can we support them to empowering themselves? What's their place in your woman network?
Wafa: I mean, as these, this is such a great question. My God, you hit the nail on its head because I think your children can't to be your job. And I think women who do want graduates from becoming manager to consultant to an advisor and letting them go. Is really like, that's where you see them have an identity crisis, maybe at a much later stage it's because I normally that's, but they've made the choice to sacrifice, work or leaving the, you know, the workplace to manage their kids full time.
Then you feel like your children, oh, you, right. Like I sacrificed for you. What do you mean you're going to leave me? What do you mean? You don't care? What I think? So there is this resentment, I think, with some moms who choose this over that. So then as their kids leave, like if they think they'll be their kids forever and they're permanent.
Okay. And when they leave and they go on to live their own lives and start their own families, you see these women struggle because what am I supposed to do now? And like my whole purpose was to take care of my children or to raise them. 
[00:20:56] Toxic Dependence
Wafa: Um, 
Aziz: Yeah. But So another one of my concerns is toxic dependence and it's usually financial in nature for many Housewives financial dependence that can limit their freedom of mobility, freedom of self-expression and their decision-making. So what can the housewife do to achieve economic independence? 
Wafa: look, I just, again, that the world is changing so fast and again, it's not to me, it's just like, statistically, why would you put all your eggs in one basket, right. Expecting your husband or your father to whatever, to. Be the biggest income generator for your entire family. Like that terror, that idea terrifies me if your husband or your dad or whoever is taking care of you loses their income because the world is changing.
Like, you know, businesses during COVID have gone to zero revenue. Like the unthinkable happened, so why would you decrease your chances of surviving and taking care of your family? Just by being a bystander to that.
So for me, it's much more like economics. Like, you need to get your hands dirty, you need to like be skilled, you need to have options. And you need to be a contributor by choice. Like you don't have to. Right. But it's great for you to like, have your own money, have your, you know, I interviewed somebody on my podcast who said you know, making your own money. It's just, there's dignity in that. 
And so my suggestion is if you can work, flexibly from your home, if you can start a business, if you can sell things, if you can make things, if you can like be super skilled, like don't stop learning, don't stop being good at things you don't have to work or make your own money, but just be ready, for the workforce.
If you have to, you know, have options, be able to add value to your family, to your society. So it doesn't have to come the shape of like a job or even in business. It just means that Like you're ready. If you have to be somewhere someday and you have to add value someone needs you, that you can do that. 
So I think I feel like that's like the least we can do just to be active citizens and make some sort of difference in our communities. Right. Even if it's through charitable work,
[00:23:05] Habits of successful women
Aziz: I know that the women you interviewed in your podcast have been extremely unique, what are some consistent habits or traits that these successful women have in common? 
Wafa: a deep sense of purpose. They really want to achieve something they want to achieve, you know, they're really motivated, so They're not going to stop because they failed or they've fallen or they don't know how to do something. They'll figure it out.
Just like being deeply resilient, just a lot of their stories are just, they get knocked down and they come right up and also just like, you know, multiple startups, they start over and over and over again and they just really don't give up as well. I think they see visions for themselves that they're trying to mirror or get to.
[00:23:50] A habit your grateful for
Aziz: what's a habit that you are grateful for developing. 
Wafa: I don't know if there's a word to describe it, but just breaking and like doing myself over and over again. It's just something I'm good at. So something breaks today. If I break emotionally the next day, I'm just like, okay, I'm glued myself back. I don't know if that's, I think maybe that's resilience or 
Aziz: There's a word for it. And it seemed to leave, wrote a whole book about it, but it's anti-fragile right. So it's kind like. You break, right. But then you glue yourself together. only the same as before that's resilience. It's anti-fraud, you you're stronger than before, you know so that's what you want, 
Wafa: it sounds brilliant. I need all these, like you mentioned, like so many statistics today. I want them, and I want this breeding list that you're reading. What is the, many books do you read
Aziz: I'll share them with the Australia. So I'm with you. Okay. So 
I have all these bugs and what I do is I highlight a bunch of stuff in them and then I just revisit the highlights and I don't really read them like front to back, you know, I just like get them, highlight what I like.
And so I love to read. I love to, expand my knowledge and I like to share with people. And I think you do exactly the same thing over through the podcast. So I really, I really enjoy doing this. 
Wafa: it's awesome. You know, I agree.
Aziz: You're awesome. 
Okay. So 
[00:25:09] Coaching people
Aziz: How can our listeners place themselves in a good environment? How can they find the right people? I mean, you really pushed yourself to do an iron man to find a group to help you train, but how can people find that in multiple scenarios? 
Wafa: Um, I do some one-to-one coaching, so I love coaching startups and different people who are starting their organization. I feel like I get asked that a lot from different startups. Like where do I go to find a community? Like, I want to find other startups and I'm like, create your own. Like, do you have a few friends that, you know, to be like, let's do a weekly group. Let's do an accountability group. Let's like have a weekly lunch.
Let's go sit by like the behind for it. Like there's a gorgeous little cafe there. Like, let's go sit there once a week that structure this meeting, let's talk about what we're stuck with and how can we support each other, like everything I've ever done has been me trying to build a community around my passion projects.
 So like I think I don't wait for permission to, find the community or to be invited. Like I actually think, okay, who do I want to be surrounded with? And I build a product around that. 
. So like build the community that you want, even if it's a micro-community around your needs, your wants your passion. So let's be proactive. and do that instead of wait for someone to design it for us. 
So, and if you find that you're whining about it or complaining about it, like where is this? And where is that? Like, that's a huge pain point than you're having so like, solve the problem
[00:26:40] Book that inspired you
Aziz: I love that. Absolutely. Hell yeah. All right. So which book fiction or nonfiction inspired you to call to action on a personal or career level? 
Wafa: lean in by Sheryl Sandberg. she's the COO of Facebook. 
I mean, there's been so many incredible books written by, you know, Gloria Steinem and just all these. You know, godmother is a feminism really, and women who've brought, you know, reinvigorated the feminism movement to the sixties in the U S but I think recently, Sheryl Sandberg talked about that kind of gentle power, which is not taking your foot off the pedal too early, not leaving work, staying in the game as much as possible.
Even if you're going to have a child and just talking about how hard and lonely it is being a woman that is a minority amongst a world full of men and what it means for her, what is her playbook to success? 
So I think that book resonated with me was really humanized. it was an easy like read. So I think that's changed the trajectory so, I mean, I love her book. It had such a strong call of action,
Aziz: beautiful. Lean in, and who's that bite again? 
Wafa: Sheryl Sandberg,
Aziz: Cheryl the COO of Facebook. 
[00:27:52] Important Message
Aziz: What's an important message that you want our audience to take away from our discussion. 
Wafa: figure out what your personal mission statement is. I know that that's like a loaded question, but really figure out like why God made you or the universe has made you differently than everybody else. Cause I think we're all. Just a little bit different enough and driven by different things to figure out what, like tap into that because that's your compass for life.
You'll probably be, be so much happier once you realize what your place is in the world. I highly recommend working with coaches. I'm a huge fan of like therapists and coaches and all these different guides who ask you the right questions for you to figure out the answers, which are already in us by the way. But it's about asking, getting us the right question. And then once you figure that out, go whole heartedly into it.
[00:28:43] How to suuport Wafa
Aziz: Beautiful. Beautiful. Thank you. . Thank you so much for joining the dialogue. We really appreciate having you on. I learned so much just from talking to you I cannot wait until the next time we get to connect and collaborate. 
Wafa: that's as he, I have to save before you leave, this has been such a great interview. You are really good at this. Um, These questions were so well thought of well researched, well structured. 
This is. Just top notch. I've done so many interviews. This has been one of my most favorite because it's just, I feel like you've done your homework and you know me really well. 
So thank you for just putting in all this incredible efforts. I know it's not easy to put a podcast show together, so yeah, like, you know, I'm a fan now and I'll be listening to the rest of your episodes soon.
Aziz: thank you. You're amazing. Now, honestly, my heart is full. Just hearing that, especially from a person that I look up to like yourself. So thank you so much. And you know, I want to show you that I appreciate. Yeah, so I definitely had to do my homework. So thanks again for joining. 
Wafa: Thank you.
[00:29:50] Outro
Aziz: This podcast will now be possible without your support. So please subscribe to our podcast, share it with your friends and family. Check out the show notes for any references made and engage with us on Instagram and email. Thank you.